Musings on Maneuver Drive
Robert O'Connor
(17 Dec 2017 04:27 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(17 Dec 2017 11:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(18 Dec 2017 08:50 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(18 Dec 2017 21:16 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(20 Dec 2017 09:07 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(20 Dec 2017 16:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(20 Dec 2017 17:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(20 Dec 2017 17:40 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(20 Dec 2017 17:42 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Thomas RUX
(21 Dec 2017 04:19 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:09 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Kelly St. Clair
(21 Dec 2017 06:18 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Phil Pugliese
(21 Dec 2017 18:18 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Thomas RUX
(21 Dec 2017 21:39 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Kurt Feltenberger
(21 Dec 2017 23:48 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(23 Dec 2017 13:23 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Edward Swatschek
(22 Dec 2017 01:59 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Phil Pugliese
(22 Dec 2017 05:31 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:26 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(22 Dec 2017 07:52 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(22 Dec 2017 12:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(23 Dec 2017 04:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Tim
(23 Dec 2017 07:46 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(24 Dec 2017 13:15 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Tim
(25 Dec 2017 00:25 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive Robert O'Connor (25 Dec 2017 04:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(01 Jan 2018 03:28 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(02 Jan 2018 03:42 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(02 Jan 2018 19:40 UTC)
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Leonard Erickson wrote: > Slight problem. the ship's kinetic energy depends on which frame of > reference you use... It's energy with respect to the star and the > various other bodies in a system will be different for each. Yes. Is it numerically significant? In special relativity, the relationship: (kinetic energy)^2 = (momentum x c)^2 + (rest mass x c^2)^2 is true in all frames of reference. [Where the ship's kinetic energy is (gamma-1) x m x c^2, and gamma is the Lorentz factor for the velocity. Similarly, the momentum is (gamma) x m x v]. At worst, you will get variances comparable to the Shapiro effect (delay in radar travel time between planets caused by solar gravity) of a few percent between observers. I am arguing for a worst case velocity of ~0.26c, which makes the variation between observers even smaller. The effective "preferred" frame of reference would be the biggest star in a planetary system given that's where most of the local distortion of space-time is going to come from. (General relativity is the best fit to the situation of high-speed interplanetary travel, but the math required is way beyond my minimal skills). > Reaction drives don't have this problem, because the increase in KE > in any frame is matched by an equal and opposite change in KE on the > part of the exhaust. It looks like you are confusing momentum with kinetic energy here. I readily concede that momentum will not be conserved unless we expand the system. For example: if the spacecraft harvests momentum somehow from all the other bodies in-system, momentum is then conserved. Energy is a scalar quantity, so directions don't matter. In the absence of external influences (a closed system), the total amount of energy is conserved at all times: kinetic energy of moving objects [rocket + exhaust] plus potential energy of the reaction mass is a constant. The energy-momentum relationship given above applies. > Reactionless drives don't have that factor. so they will *always* > violate conservation of energy, conservation of momentum, and even > conservation of angular momentum in at least one frame of reference. Correction: You will violate at least one of these quantities in at least one frame of reference. Momentum is the hardest one not to break; energy is a lot easier. But if someone in Andromeda eventually sees an apparent causality or conservation violation, does it matter for the folks in the spaceship and the near vicinity that do not? Rob O'Connor