Musings on Maneuver Drive Robert O'Connor (17 Dec 2017 04:27 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(17 Dec 2017 11:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(18 Dec 2017 08:50 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(18 Dec 2017 21:16 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(20 Dec 2017 09:07 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(20 Dec 2017 16:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(20 Dec 2017 17:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(20 Dec 2017 17:40 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
C. Berry
(20 Dec 2017 17:42 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Thomas RUX
(21 Dec 2017 04:19 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:09 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Kelly St. Clair
(21 Dec 2017 06:18 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Phil Pugliese
(21 Dec 2017 18:18 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Thomas RUX
(21 Dec 2017 21:39 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Kurt Feltenberger
(21 Dec 2017 23:48 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Jerry Barrington
(23 Dec 2017 13:23 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Edward Swatschek
(22 Dec 2017 01:59 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Phil Pugliese
(22 Dec 2017 05:31 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:26 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(21 Dec 2017 06:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(22 Dec 2017 07:52 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Richard Aiken
(22 Dec 2017 12:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(23 Dec 2017 04:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Tim
(23 Dec 2017 07:46 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(24 Dec 2017 13:15 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Tim
(25 Dec 2017 00:25 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Robert O'Connor
(25 Dec 2017 04:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(01 Jan 2018 03:28 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
Rob O'Connor
(02 Jan 2018 03:42 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Musings on Maneuver Drive
shadow@xxxxxx
(02 Jan 2018 19:40 UTC)
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Like many space opera settings, the maneuver drives in Traveller are capable of enormous amounts of thrust, far beyond the energy content of the fuel allocated. Conservation of momentum and energy are long gone unless momentum gets stolen from nearby astronomical bodies, vacuum energy gets tapped, or some source of energy external to the spaceship is otherwise drawn upon. Choose a handwave. Space is big, so ships need to move quickly to move the story along. But objects travelling at kilometer per second speeds have enormous destructive potential. The kinetic energy of an object moving at ~2.9km per second is equivalent to the object's mass in TNT. The kinetic energy of an object moving at 5% of the speed of light (~14,990 km/s) is equivalent to the object's mass undergoing nuclear fission, or about 20 kilotons TNT per kg. The kinetic energy of an object moving between 10 and 15% of the speed of light (~29,980 to 44,870km/s) is equal to the object's mass undergoing nuclear fusion, or up to 180 kilotons TNT per kg. Kinetic energy equivalent to rest mass is attained at 86.6% of the speed of light (~259,620km/s) - the object's mass converted directly to energy, as per E = mc^2 - a whopping 21.5 megatons TNT per kg. The canonical workaround to limit the 'near-c rock problem' is that thrusters lose efficiency away from gravity wells; 10 diameters for contragravity and 1000 diameters for thruster plates. Beyond these distances, thrust falls to 1% of the rated level. The workaround doesn't work as most of the mass of a star system is in the star(s). The 1000 diameter limit for a Sun-like star is 9.2 astronomical units (AU; one AU is the average distance between Earth and the sun or 150 million km). Even for the smallest M-class dwarf, the thousand diameter limit is 0.92 AU. So there is plenty of space to zoom about and accumulate a world-shattering amount of energy. In any case, no attempt is made to explain where the energy comes from to give the spaceship the needed velocity. * Working Towards a Solution The ideal solution would add minimal complexity to whatever ship design system one cares to use. It shouldn't disrupt the official setting too much. So ships should be capable of at least one week's worth of thrust, so that there is scope for non-jump space travelling. If an in-system destination takes more than one week's travel time by conventional drive, then a microjump is the time-effective solution for passengers and priority freight. It would also at least nod in the general direction of conservation of energy. In 'High Guard', a ship's power plant and maneuver drive require 1% of the ship's volume per power plant number for fuel. This gives an endurance of 30 days. In T5, 1% of the hull per month of power plant operation in fuel covers everything except the jump drive. For the versions of Traveller in between, the fuel requirement is based entirely on that of the power plant and the maneuver systems have a notional need for power e.g. 65 or 70MW per displacement ton of contragrav/thruster unit in Megatraveller. Now the fuel requirements listed for the power plants are very high. If we assume proton-proton fusion: 6H -> 2He-3 -> He-4 + 2H + 2 neutrinos yields about 26 MeV or ~7.3 MW-day per gram H, or 7.3 million MW-day per ton H. Alternatively, 1 litre of liquid hydrogen is worth 1.4 megawatt-years of energy, one cubic metre 1400 megawatt-years. In Megatraveller, TL 15 fusion has a best case fuel consumption of 9L per 18MW-hours or 0.5L per MW-hour - an implied efficiency of 1/(35 x 7.3 x 24) or 0.016%. In Traveller: The New Era TL 15 fusion consumes 100L per 6MW-years or 6/1400 = 0.43% Efficiency gets worse at lower tech levels. Improved power plant efficiency means there's some fuel that could be used for propulsion without dramatically screwing with existing design systems. If contragravity or thruster drives could convert fuel energy to kinetic energy with high levels of efficiency, what would happen? So kinetic energy of spacecraft = energy from fuel x conversion efficiency factor Total conversion of matter to energy yields ~1040.226MW-day per gram, 1040226 per kg, 1.04 x 10^9 per ton. If we assume thrusters convert fuel to kinetic energy with 75% efficiency then 720 G-hours of thrust requires a fuel mass fraction of 0.005, a volume fraction of 0.071 and a terminal velocity with 720 G-hours of acceleration of 0.086 of the speed of light - about 25,782 km per second. (A G-hour = 1G of thrust for an hour. So a 6G rated drive with 720 G-hours endurance can accelerate for 720/6 = 120 hours). I chose 720 G-hours as an endurance of 30 days appears frequently in Megatraveller. There is minimal effect on some of the designs given in the 'Imperial Encyclopaedia' assuming 75% TL 15 fusion plant efficiency - in fact there are fuel savings with some of them. If we look at a wider range of potential accelerations, we get: (with apologies for potential formatting glitches): G-hours: acceleration potential in hours (days). Fuel mass fraction: proportion of vehicle mass in maneuver drive fuel. Fuel volume fraction: proportion of vehicle volume in maneuver drive fuel. Terminal velocity: if all the acceleration potential was spent in building up speed. G-hours Fuel mass fraction Fuel volume fraction Terminal velocity, c 180(7.5) 0.0003 0.004 0.0215 360(15) 0.0012 0.017 0.043 540(22.5) 0.0028 0.040 0.0645 720(30) 0.005 0.071 0.086 900(37.5) 0.0078 0.112 0.108 1080(45) 0.0112 0.160 0.129 1260(52.5) 0.0154 0.220 0.151 1440(60) 0.020 0.290 0.173 1620(67.5) 0.026 0.365 0.194 1800(75) 0.032 0.457 0.216 1980(82.5) 0.039 0.557 0.238 2160(90) 0.047 0.670 0.259 * Conclusions The values above are consistent with conservation of energy and relativity. While they still enable the attainment of relativistic speeds, there is no major impact on travel times etc. except for the most distant objects in a stellar system. The power levels required (~hundreds of terawatts) imply that drives need to be very efficient radiators; neutrino radiation of waste heat works as a handwave that could be applied to the comparatively tiny power consumption of other systems. Agility can be redefined as maximum thrust potential e.g. an agility-6 vessel has 6G rated drives, independent of endurance. Most starships will have around 720 G-hours endurance, unless built for military or exploration/rescue applications. Short-haul vehicles (surface to orbit, out to 100 planetary diameters or nearby satellites) could have 180 G-hours endurance for bigger payload capacities. Rob O'Connor