You bring up an a point that doesn't get mentioned very often but would be very important in this case; If nothing is coming in, then how the heck does anyone get out? In that situation I can see where there would be a 'cut line' of sorts. Too little pop & they'd all just dwindle away until... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/24/17, C. Berry <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [TML] Changing The Jump Drive Limit? To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Monday, July 24, 2017, 2:00 PM I agree that above some threshold, probably pop 5-6, the tendency for trade-isolated worlds to depopulate goes away. The reason is that with that large a population, there are enough specialists around to make interesting products and cultural output locally. Again, resource constraints effectively disappear at TL9, in the vast majority of star systems. You can grab an asteroid or a comet and get all the raw materials you need, and fusion gives you all the power you need as well. So a barren rock at TL9, pop 6 could thrive indefinitely even if the rest of the galaxy disappeared overnight. Their economy would take some time to adjust, and people would complain about not being able to get Moran frabzit hoops any more, but nobody would starve or lack for breathable air. The key to depopulation is differential opportunity. If there's nowhere better to go, or no way to get there, people stay put. I get the sense that a lot of unpleasant low-pop worlds weathered the Long Night with their population levels intact simply because there was never enough transport available to move a significant fraction of the population to a nicer world, or no nearby nicer worlds willing to take in that many immigrants. On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote: For systems w/ a POP level equal to the towns along Route66, or, for that matter, even the pop of some of the smaller island/nations, I would agree. But how many POP9+ towns were along Route66? Once there's that many people in a system, it would pretty much go on forever, barring something really & truly catastrophic. Even Darrian still has a respectable POP altho whether it would've been able too w/o the external contact that eventually was restored after the Maghiz, is an open question. Also, quite a few worlds managed to maintain themselves thru the LongNight. The starships stopped coming but they got over it. ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------- On Mon, 7/24/17, C. Berry <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [TML] Changing The Jump Drive Limit? To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Monday, July 24, 2017, 12:29 PM I think just about any world could in theory get along at TL9+. Essentially every system is going to have metal, rock, and ices, and with those, cheap space travel, and even cheaper fusion power, you can survive indefinitely anywhere. The question is where it is worth living. In the absence of frequent trade, people living on emptier worlds have fewer markets for their products, and fewer sources from which to buy needed items (or luxuries, for that matter). Over time, people will tend to leave for greener pastures. It really is like the old towns along Route 66; when I-40 opened, the towns themselves remained just as habitable, but the motivation for living there dropped sharply, and most were abandoned or nearly so. On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote: I think you'll see a big difference depending upon details, esp POP, of each system. I think the Hi-POP worlds of the 'Marches, for example, could pretty much last forever on their own. The 'BIG-4' (Mora, Trin, Rhylanor, Glisten), all Hi-POP & TL15 are a sure bet but I think that even Porazlo, TL10 & POP9, would get along just fine. Now, of course, the various higher-level govs (sub-sector, sector, etc) would definitely have an interest in maintaining trade, just as the Spanish did wrt their NewWorld colonies despite the omnipresent threat of piracy. p.s. I've always wondered if the Spanish lost more to hurricanes & other inclement weather than they did to piracy, or privateers. ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------- On Mon, 7/24/17, Bruce Johnson <xxxxxx@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote: Subject: Re: [TML] Changing The Jump Drive Limit? To: "xxxxxx@simplelists.com" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Date: Monday, July 24, 2017, 9:59 AM On Jul 24, 2017, at 1:30 AM, Amber Witherspoon <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: So, what I'm getting is that if we want to provide a golden opportunity for piracy, the numbers will have to be tweaked to provide a large enough region of space for lurking, but not so large that it becomes uneconomical to fly to the main world? Say, 2.5x (250 diameters)? if this is the only way to do interstellar trade, ‘uneconomical’ won’t really matter; worlds cut off from trade will pretty quickly dwindle; look at once thriving towns that were bypassed by the interstates…they won’t even be able to support pirates. You’ll have the occasional world that serves as a hidey hole for bad guys, loners and just plain freaks, but any world that wants to maintain contact with the outer universe will pay the price to keep a starport up. What you end up with, I think is Traveller between systems and (depending on your TU and tastes) in-system settings are like The Expanse, Firefly or some other local setting altogether. You may have sprawling in-system development and traffic or you could just have the starport with essentially giant cargo “trains” of traffic going to and from the main world. Obviously the ‘sprawling’ model offers a lot more PC piratical adventuring potential. :-) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists. com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to http://archives.simplelists. com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists. com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to http://www.simplelists.com/ confirm.php?u= PltOdItWBSgOP4y0Q6abkGbDI1eus0 lz -- "Eternity is in love with the productions of time." - William Blake ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists. com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to http://archives.simplelists. com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists. com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to http://www.simplelists.com/ confirm.php?u= PltOdItWBSgOP4y0Q6abkGbDI1eus0 lz -- "Eternity is in love with the productions of time." - William Blake ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=EwREIRgLK8vaUEhNlnoNdSGKwnjoID8a
