Right. The problem is that these "creative" applications of the tech are /not/ actually that obscure or arcane to a certain kind of mind. Pretty much any 'clever' thing a PC might think of has probably already been thought of, many times, by people with a similar mix of technical knowledge, a knack for lateral thinking, and a casual disregard for (or active joy in taking) the lives of strangers. For us geeks and gamers, it is a fun and challenging mental exercise to pick systems and technologies apart and imagine how they might be used to kill a lot of people, destroy a lot of property, steal a lot of money, or prevent any or all of these things. For some people, both in real life and, if your setting is at all like real life, in-universe, that is their full-time job, with real lives etc riding on them doing it well. -- --------------- Kelly St. Clair xxxxxx@efn.org