The current discussion glosses over one of the fundamentals differences between the Zhodani and the Imperium. The Zhodani Consulate is a homogeneous society. Everywhere you go it's the same. Every system, every planet, every moon. All the same. The Imperuim is a non-homogenous society. Every system you go to is a different, every planet has its own distinct culture (sweeping statement but you get my point I'm sure). Multi system cultures are actively discouraged in fact essentially enforced not to exist, the only real exception being the Vilani (there are others of course but you get my point I'm sure). Where PCs normally interact is with Imperial culture, and that’s the 0.01% wealth bracket, i.e. those that inhabit the "space between the stars", those with star ships that travel in Imperium Space and some that call the Starports home. And that's where we play because that's where the fun is. The PCs may not be the 0.01% ers themselves but that's the part of the Imperial culture that they interact with the most. We don’t play, and generally overlook most of what we would call "Imperial Citizens" because they aren't really Imperial citizens they are "Planetary" citizens, and quite a lot of these live under regimes that would make the North Koreans and the Taliban look like angles (I'm exaggerating to make the point), because playing there is not fun. Imperial citizens are really the citizens of space. So to address Phil's point that "Consulate is basically set up to serve psions, &, essentially, the rest are 'Untermenschen'". I would argue that it's the Imperium that is set-up to serve their ruling class and the rest are 'Untermenschen' in fact more so than the Consulate. At least the Consulate provide care for every citizen even while they are oppressing them. The Imperial elites couldn’t give two hoots about any of their "planetary" citizens as long as they can keep the money rolling in infact they tolerate limited wars that _kills them_ as long as those wars don’t disrupt trade, and when they do disrupt trade they hammer them into the ground _kill even more of them_ to serve as an example so that the next "limited war" doesn’t disrupt trade ... you don’t see the Consulate going around doing that. Which society is better? Who knows? Probably depends on where you are in it. If I was at the bottom I'd probably want to be in the Consulate; at least I'd be happy. If I was at the top I'd probably want to be in the Imperium because I could be much more selfish in my happiness and have the wealth to do essentially anything without much or any consequences. Why is the Imperium hostile to the Zhodani Consulate? Because the ruling classes are two fundamentally different cultures with fundamentally different aims competing in the same area for the resources needed to fulfil those aims. YMMV of course. -- For the fallen in the cause of the free: "When I go home I will tell of them and say, For our tomorrow, They gave their today." My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license -----Original Message----- From: Rupert Boleyn - rupert.boleyn at gmail.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2024 9:00 AM To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Subject: Re: [TML] Why is the Imperium hostile to the Zhodani Consulate? On 03Aug2024 1905, Jim Vassilakos - jim.vassilakos at gmail.com (via tml list) wrote: > But, of course, there's a deeper level, and it goes back to Jeffrey > Schwartz's comparison of the Imperium and Zhodani Consulate to Amway > and Herbalife. To put it simply, having psionic abilities is such an > advantage that it seemed inevitable that psionic individuals would > eventually take over. Of course, by the late fifth century, psionic > bloodlines were already ensconced in most of the major power centers > (the royalty, the nobility, the megacorps, and the military). How inheritable is psionics offically these days? AM4 did not guarantee nobles a decent psi score at all - they rolled 2d like normal, but were guaranteed training. TNE outright stated that psionic talent is not inheritable. So there weren't really psionic bloodlines, though the offspring of psionic nobles would have the advantage of exposure to psionics and training. The universal testing and recruitment of those with good psionic potential into the establishment is very clever - it brings the greatest threats into the system, and it renews the ruling elite at the same time, and concentrates what inheritablity there is in the elites while removing it from the general population's gene pool. > But unlike > the Zhodani Consulate, the Imperial psions weren't rubbing it into the > noses of the non-psions. The non-psions, by and large, incorrectly > believed they could rise to the top of whatever hierarchy they > inhabited, so they would work harder and be willing to take greater > risks than their Zhodani counterparts. This made Imperial society more > dynamic. And it made it easier for the Imperium to incorporate neutral > worlds, as people didn't have to change their own whole of life. The > Zhodani had a much harder time. Ultimately, their society was more > stable, but this was at the cost of growth. > > They could see that Space Amway --- er, the Imperium --- would > outcompete them over time. They panicked and decided to attack in > order to buy themselves some time. Then they began infiltrating the > Imperial Psionics Institutes. This resulted in the aforementioned PSI, > which was part and parcel of Psionics Suppressions. Those in the know > call this period of history the Psi Wars. > > What do you think? I don't think the Consulate panicked. It seems like a very deliberate series of wars with generally limited (for the Zhos) objectives. They seem quite good at them. -- Rupert Boleyn <xxxxxx@gmail.com> ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please go to https://www.simplelists.com/confirm/?u=dHxdYirgSgos395qMhM3iGkCaAJ5nIse
