Hello Phil and everyone on the TML, My apologies for the earlier two posts, my bad Monday started on 10/25 and has continued for most of today 10/26. Here is my real reply to you Phil. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Pugliese (via tml list) Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 2:49 PM To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Subject: Re: [TML] Original CT LBB's scoutship vs CT HG scoutship? This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows: -------------------------------------------- Sat, 10/25/14: [SNIP] PHIL; > > I looked at HG 2ed (I didn't see the 1st ed for quite some years as I came > into Trav right after the 2nd ed came out & the 1st ed was superseded > after > only one year) as similar to the mil-spec requirements of the US > DoD, so I felt that those rules should be followed slavishly. > (I still wonder how the original 'Plankwell' BB design. with that wimpy > meson screen, was danced past the Procurement folks. Maybe someone > connected to it had high-level contacts/influence? "Hey we'll just use > them against foes with only low-level meson guns, or none at all! Right?) TOM; Lucky you I got a good look at HG 1st edition and did not get past determining the weapon rating codes. Of course there are some things that HG 2nd Edition omitted, fighter squadrons and medical section are the biggest. Based on the number of real world warships that where built my take was the builder orally promised that the Plankwell class would have the meson screens upgrade at a later time and the later time or funding never arrived to do the job. ======================================================================================== PHIL (new); Yeah, that'd work. Or it could've been analogous to various attempts to hold down US defense expenditures, like the way the early Spruance class DD's were initially criticized for having only anti-sub capability & little else but had lot's of spare room for future upgrades. Only, in the end, as in yours, the upgrades never happened. >Tom (new) The contractor made money and the government got stuck with the product. Of course another reason is that the IN decided to build the next generation so they didn't care about the obsolete Plankwells. > ========================================================================================== PHIL; > With LBB2, & esp after the 'Annic Nova' adventure indicated that > 'non-standard' designs *could* get an Imperial Registry, I tended to allow > a reasonable amount of 'fudging' (post-commision non-standard refits?), > esp > since I became aware of the diffs tween the LBB2's when I bought that > hardbound Traveller Book, started using it, & noticed right away some > diffs w/ the original LBB's 1-3. (and even some minor diffs w/ the 2nd ed > LBB's > 1-3) TOM; I have two copies, pamphlet and in the FFE reprint, of JTAS 1 that as far as I know is the first place the Annic Nova appeared, unfortunately I only skimmed through the details and never did anything else with the design. PHIL; > Still, one thing that remains 'hard & fast' is the large volume of fuel > required for jumping. (60% for J6!) > But, there is also the 'Annic Nova' example where large solar 'sails' were > used to charge the jump capacitors. > (Still can't see how that could actually work though, It's such a large > energy requirement) > Now there's a thought, maybe the Scout Ship could have a J4 engine but > carry only enough fuel for J3. > If J4 was wanted then drop tanks could be used if avail (note: I've > always thought that the IN Tank-Rons also performed the function of > 'drop-tank' tenders) or a 'sail' like the 'Annic Nova' used could be > deployed. > [Note: As I recall the 'Nova had enough storage capacity to allow for TWO > jumps. (one J3 & one J2, I think)] TOM; During my efforts to go through and verify the original Traveller designs I've been thinking about the jump fuel requirement. Since the time in jump space is approximately 168 hours I think that half the fuel opens jump space at the outbound jump point and the remaining half reverses the process at the inbound jump point. Per JTAS 1 page 30 the energy collector canopy takes between 1 and 6 weeks to charge the accumulators to make a jump. The accumulators, I guessing here, change the collected energy into right type of electrical and begins charging the jump capacitors and power for the internal systems. Per the design and construction rules jump fuel tankage is calculated based on the maximum jump rating, of course if one is using the concept that the if the rules do specifically forbid not having a full jump fuel load then the fuel load can be less than that needed to make a jump four. I'm not sure what IN Tank-Rons means, but I'll take a swing at answering. My guess is that an IN Tank-Ron is a squadron of tankers used as mobile gas stations similar to the KC-135 inflight refueling tanker. In the case of a drop tank tender I think that the ship collects the jettisoned tanks beginning the refurbishing process while heading to the port where they can be placed in storage until needed for the next run. ===================================================================================== PHIL(New); I first encountered 'tankers' in the original 'Imperium' board game from GDW that covered the period of the 'Interstellar Wars' 'tween the Vilani & Terrans that culminated in the end of the First Imp followed shortly after by the est. of the 2nd. 'Tankers' were needed to be able to follow jump routes thru 'bachelor' star systems. There are actual tanker squadrons in the 'Fifth Frontier War' board game. They can accompany a fleet & allow it to jump again in situations where the fleet would otherwise have to pause to refuel I envisioned them staying behind when the rest of the fleet jumped, collecting the d'tanks, & then either following along or going elsewhere, depending on their orders. >Tom (new) I have both board games, but never got around to playing them, but I did read through the rules. I think I also checked through them in conjunction creating table of organizations for various military units. The project, like many others, is still a work in progress. > ====================================================================================== TOM; The Consolidated CT Errata mentions that to fill and I think refine the soup in the fuel tanks takes about 8 hours when skimming a gas giant and then the time needed to travel to the jump point. The Annic Nova takes between 1 and 6 weeks to have enough power to charge the jump capacitors and then travel to the outbound jump point. Several of my characters where Scouts and form my point of view I would not want to be in a possibly unfriendly system for one to six weeks waiting to charge the jump drive. ===================================================================================== PHIL(new); It seems to me that the A'Nova or a similarly equipped vessel, could deploy it's 'sail' while it's inbound, thus it would already have some 'juice' in the j'capacitors before it, or any other vessel, could otherwise begin refueling. Thus a scout ship equipped w/ something similar could actually be prepared to jump sooner than one w/o a 'sail'. And then there's also the very real possibility, if there are no gas giants present in the system, that the vessel may actually have to make planetfall in order to refuel . In that situation, having a 'sail' could make a critical difference. (note; I do believe that there are systems, though very,very few, w/o either GG's or 'water', where the only refuelling option is at a facility. 'A 'sail' could be very handy in such a system) Also, consumption of fuel for jumping also depends on what version of the rules you are using. The original rpg rules & the 5thFW boardgame used the original rules that required vessels to use *all* their jump fuel to 'energize' the jump drives, no matter how long the actual jump was. Hence, any time a vessel jumped, it used up all it's jump fuel, no matter what. CT LBB5 HGv1 introduced the 'jump governor' which allowed a vessel to calculate it's fuel usage as if it's J-drive were the same 'number' as the jump distance. Hence, a vessel w/ a J4 drive could make, w/o refuelling, four J1's, two J2's or any combo that added up to exactly four. Now that really introduced a whole lot more flexibility into the rpg as well as, if used (I don't believe it was ever actually put into the rules), the above board game. Personally, I would've preferred to have Trav stick w/ the original rule but by the time I got into it, the jump governor had already been introduced, leaving me to conclude for quite some time that the fuel usage rules in the 5FW boardgame were introduced by the game designer to simplify the game, rather than actually mirroring the earlier rules set. >Tom (new) Phil are you referring to the Annic Nova's *canopy* as the 'sail'? From JTAS 1 page 30 under Maneuver, Acceleration, or Evasion the Annic Nova uses the two 40-ton pinnaces not the *canopy* which "collects radiated solar power and stores it in the accumulators on the drive deck." Fully charged accumulators store enough power to charge the J-2 capacitors, the J-3 capacitors, operate life support, and handle all other internal power requirements. JTAS 1 page 17 states that the Annic Nova appeared near the worlds Heya (0802) and immediately jumped out of the system. The next sighting was at Kinorb (0602) where the Annic Nova stayed nearly five weeks before jumping out of the system. Then the Annic Nova arrived at Dentus (0601) once again immediately jumped out of the system. Off the top of my head the Annic Nova arrived off Heya and had enough power for the jump to Kinorb. Apparently a number of factors combined together that the Annic Nova took almost five weeks to recharge the accumulators allowing the ship to reach Dentus. Apparently there is a program running that causes the Annic Nova to jump immediately under certain conditions like five scout/couriers on an intercept course, which is what happened. The only traditional fuel carried on the Annic Nova is in the fuel tanks of the two 40-ton pinnaces. That being said then a scout/courier, provided that accumulators are fully charged would be capable of jumping into a system, look around, and jump out without needing to gather and purify jump fuel. However, when the accumulators don't have enough of a charge to run the jump drive the scout has to hang out for one to six weeks recharging. My understanding of jump fuel usage from either edition of LBB 2 and LBB 5 has been only the amount of fuel needed to make a jump was used. A ship with a J-5 drive making a one parsec jump used 1/5 of the fuel. Sadly, Fifth Frontier War falls into the same category as Imperium and Interstellar Wars of having them, reading the rules, and not playing them. Which is why I don't recall the Fifth Frontier War jump fuel usage requirement and I would probably have ignored the rule anyway. Unfortunately, HG 2nd edition did away with most of the optional stuff like the jump governor. Of course the second edition also did away with the 10-ton bay which I had used on a design I was working in spite of not knowing how get the weapon rating codes. The jump governor was to make LBB 2 1st edition ships compatible with LBB 5 1st edition. With the release of the 2nd editions the fuel usage issue went away and the LBB 5 HG 1st edition jump governor got the boot too. > I think I've covered everything, but then again probably not. Tom Rux ========================================================================================== ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@travellercentral.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=zZOCJCw2BI9jPrGTB4OJoibiHbbTEiok=
