I think the OTU is a lot closer to a 'sane' economy than most of the competition of the day... Thinking back to the games I played back then.... D&D wasn't a real sane economic model. Although I guess you could make a case for "Spain and the New World" ... I always wondered, though, why there was apparently this massive decline in magic item production. I mean, if you search a 100 year old mansion, you find about 5% of the rooms have magic items... and this is the stuff people left behind when they abandoned the place. I mean, "Yeah, the house is haunted and we're bugging out.. but I think I'll leave my Ring of Protection +2 in my bedroom jewelry box." WhyTF weren't you wearing it ever since the night the haunting started? Meanwhile, in the active, happy towns, you visit someone's house, and there ain't jack. Tunnels and Trolls had a thing for inflation depending on how much gold the player spent in town, but I think that was just to attempt game balance when things went Monty Haul. Gamma Worlds... uh... never mind. The economy is based on mining stuff made 300 years ago, and on subsistence hunter/gatherer action with minimal farming. But they've got power armor! One town in 10 has a dude with freaking power armor with global range radio, but they're freaking surprised when the Mutants show up after taking out the 3 towns up the road. _Nobody_ calls for help? Or at least warns anyone? Car Wars!! Yes, the world economy is based on advertising sales from autoduel events... and ADAA memberships. Morrow Project .. Uh.... It's like the Gamma World economy, but with detail specs on the weapons. Every teams got a PRC-70, but nobody's got a clue what's over the next hill. Locals make _from scratch_ black powder rifles, black powder ammo.. but there's not a crystal set in sight. Convoys? Trade? ... Pre-war killer robots, yes... but ... Twilight 2000? Ok, another GDW product, and again we have some notes on trade. Maybe not that realistic, but much better than the above. Star Fleet Battles ... Eleven dozen different freighter variants covering multiple races.... and nada in the way of anything like economic rules. They even come out at one point and split values on ships for Economic vs Combat BPV.... but stuff just magically comes to you as long as the BPV total is OK.... and a full reload of missiles for a carrier is as much as the carrier costs. Huh? On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Greg Chalik <mrg3105@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm sure the economic history of Earth can't be the model for TU. > > It seems to me that there is much wrong with TU, and some of the reasons are > those given by Kelly earlier - it was the 70s > > Greg > > On 27/08/2014 4:41 AM, "Phil Pugliese (via tml list)" > <nobody@simplelists.com> wrote: >> >> This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of >> emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address >> (philpugliese@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original >> message follows: >> >> Although the systems in TU are not exactly analogs (after all any >> planetary system will contain virtually unlimited resources) to countries >> here on earth, I think it can be instructive to compare them anyway. >> >> Consider the cases of Japan, India, & China. >> >> All three began a process of transformation after contact with the West >> (similar to First Contact in the 3I, esp in the early years) which has >> resulted in increased industrialization albeit at very different rates & >> also w/ fluctuations in those rates over the years. >> >> I believe that India & China were Pop8 & Japan was Pop7 when they were >> first 'opened up' to the West. >> >> In that period of time look how they've changed. >> >> Now there are also lower pop countries here on Earth that haven't really >> changed that much while some have changed quite a lot but all possess >> enclaves where one can find the highest tech avail while still there are >> also many areas where it's very, very primitive. >> >> I wonder if the Pop level is the most significant factor? >> >> If the Pop is high enough, like Japan, China, & India, it almost seems as >> if there's a sort snowball effect that compels (propels?) a country into a >> development cycle that may be resisted, & or suppressed but nonetheless >> progresses towards higher tech. >> BTW, are there any other countries that reached Pop7 before they were >> 'opened up' to the West? >> >> Sometimes there also seems to be a similar effect on very low Pop >> countries but not always & most of those (in the Arab World) are due to >> fortuitous natural resources although Syria , Lebanon, & Jordan seem to be >> unusual cases in that they seem to be retrogressing somewhat (well, maybe >> not Jordan so much) after advancing w/o a whole lot of natural resources. >> (Yeah, I know Syria has some oil but I don't believe output was ever all >> that much). >> >> In any case, looking at countries here on Earth it seems that >> development/advancement can be all over the place so Im guessing that that >> was a big influence when the TU was first conceived. And, it did look cool >> too! >> >> Could it be that the new ultra-low trade levels that T5 seems to imply is >> intended to insure that systems remain insular so that homogenization >> doesn't occur? >> >> Could the 3I or other states, large & small, exist in a TU like that? >> >> Would an urge to expand/conquer (Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, >> Manifest Destiny, etc) be enough to initiate, sustain, & then maintain >> something like that? >> (After all when the Terran Confed took over the First Imperium, I don't >> really see that the TConfed gained a whole lot. Now the Fleet & many >> individuals/families did gain a whole lot, esp that Admiral who gained a new >> Imperium! >> >> Now, of course we know that the Vargr & Aslan have their imperatives that >> drive them on so could we say that about humaniti too? >> >> Is the 'driven by commerce' concept NOT the real reason but rather a >> 'driven by personal/family/corporate' acquisitiveness (which may not be >> limited to financial profit) concept that really drove & sustains the 3I? >> ----- >> The Traveller Mailing List >> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml >> Report problems to listmom@travellercentral.com >> To unsubscribe from this list please goto >> http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=JydxSB9tZc6TS63HiAHJcg6SAwighNGJ > > ----- > The Traveller Mailing List > Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml > Report problems to listmom@travellercentral.com > To unsubscribe from this list please goto > http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=vSy3NFQJMSbZKrzPfC3XucFBsUCMtKrI
