So a proposed modifier would be what the demand of the exported good
from the planet increases the frequency of ships landing. Another
possible modifier would be if the item were a fruit/crop from the
planet with seasonal availability then the frequency of ships would be
further modified.

It's your Universe...cut to fit.

On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Greg Chalik <mrg3105@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if TU used 17th c as a model for economics, but...
>
> It seems to me that Ian's illustrative examples are not very illustratively
> appropriate.
>
> In the first place Venetian economics were not built on the glass industry
> in the 17th century. Venice was in fact in decline after its 'power-down'
> following defeat by the Ottoman Empire in the Renaissance, and the inability
> to compete in global trade due to poor choice in geographic basing.
>
> In the second example the affordability of a grav tank, whatever design, may
> not be either possible or even needed by any given planetary economy
> Even if such a design was needed, its specific requirements available from
> manufacturer A may not fit the budget, so manufacturer B may be sought, or
> the planetary entity may decide to assemble from a variety of sub-systems
> while producing own hull and other sub-systems...
>
> Meat is also not a good example - its cultural economics where horse meat is
> concerned, as well as the fact that in the Med region and later Europe the
> horse was more valued for being a functional interface than a steak. The
> present lack of horse-meat demand is largely due to USA's cattle oversupply
> since the Second World War, the horse still being too expensive as meat
> livestock before mechanisation and motorisation fully took over.
>
> If the planetary culture was founded based on Mongolian culture, horse meat
> at dinner parties may be the only choice outside of camel meat. However, it
> really depends who is cooking. Accounts of cooking horse-meat exist from the
> Napoleonic, First and Second World wars that testify to this. And, if you
> happen to adhere to the Jewish culture, you are going to be a vegetarian
> during your stay.
>
> Long distance trade is really based on (scarcity + risk) - cost of
> functional interface. For this reason 17th-19th century naval service
> careers were quite lucrative given one incurred no cost, and the functional
> interface was built to take the risk, where the job was to make scarce goods
> even scarcer. Many a prosperous families' fortunes were made by their naval
> officer ancestors.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On 23 August 2014 07:32, Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "DGP apparently never understood that the TU had always used the 17th
>> century as a template instead of the, at that time current, 1980's.
>> Hence there was a dichotomy.
>> If Tim's calculations are correct (I don't have T5) then it appears that
>> DGP's template has been abandoned & the original CT has been put back in
>> place.
>> I, for one, welcome that development as I  never could buy into the idea
>> that such a large volume of cargo could continue to be shipped indefinitely
>> w/o eventually being supplanted by in-system (not necessarily on-planet)
>> production."
>>
>> You are just showing you dont understand either the 17thC or economics.
>>
>> OK, lets deal with the 17thC. Lets see how much glass was made in Venice
>> alone, as an example. Or look at the trade in wine or brandy, and the fact
>> it was actually specialised.
>>
>> Now, lets deal with economics. Lets take, I dunno, a grav tank. Call it 10
>> dtons and worth MCr3. At Cr750/parsec, for a 10% cheaper grav tank from mass
>> producing it in Gravtankograd, we can move it ... 300 parsecs ... before
>> cost plus cost of shipping is getting close to the cost of the shorter
>> production run. At KCr300 per dton, a grav tank is only call it KCr 30 per
>> m3 (including packing space at 10 usable m3 per 14m3 dton).
>>
>> KCr30 per m3 is Cr30 per kilo, at 1000 kilos to a m3.
>>
>> Lets take some, possibly temporarily fashionable, meat - I can see
>> hand-killed poni from some worldlet or other being worth Cr30 a kilo to
>> sufficiently educated palates, especially if average income in a high tech
>> world is KCr15 a year or so.
>>
>> Yeah, you can be eating something produced by technology and industry so
>> much cheaper - but who would go to *that* dinner party ?
>>
>> Put those two things together, and you can easily justify a lot of long
>> distance trade in the Imperium.
>>
>> Ian Whitchurch
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list)
>> <nobody@simplelists.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of
>>> emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address
>>> (philpugliese@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original
>>> message follows:
>>>
>>> The 'large scheduled container ship' theorem came in w/ MT & DGP.
>>> A later development (later MT or early Virus) was the silly idea that
>>> just about all systems would hyper-specialize their production.
>>> (Bertil Jonell made the observation that it seems that most system's
>>> production is similar to a system that exclusively produces left-footed
>>> shoes & imports *everything* else!  BTW, anyone have any contact info wrt
>>> Bertil?)
>>> DGP apparently never understood that the TU had always used the 17th
>>> century as a template instead of the, at that time current, 1980's.
>>> Hence there was a dichotomy.
>>> If Tim's calculations are correct (I don't have T5) then it appears that
>>> DGP's template has been abandoned & the original CT has been put back in
>>> place.
>>> I, for one, welcome that development as I  never could buy into the idea
>>> that such a large volume of cargo could continue to be shipped indefinitely
>>> w/o eventually being supplanted by in-system (not necessarily on-planet)
>>> production.
>>> I believe that someone (Jeff?) posted some text on this subject a while
>>> back that allowed for such w/o endangering the 3I's revenue which was one
>>> the major arguments used to support MT-DGP's position.
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> On Fri, 8/22/14, Craig Berry <cdberry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Subject: Re: [TML] expected ship traffic
>>>  To: tml@simplelists.com
>>>  Date: Friday, August 22, 2014, 12:50 PM
>>>
>>>  I've
>>>  always thought that most interstellar shipping, like most
>>>  shipping today, would be done by large, scheduled container
>>>  ships. Small independents in their free/far/fat traders
>>>  would fill in gaps -- whether that means visiting a system
>>>  without regular freight service (for whatever reason), or
>>>  getting an urgent cargo delivered ahead of the usual
>>>  schedule, or carrying something the regulars won't touch
>>>  for legal or other reasons. A free trader trying to compete
>>>  head to head against the big guys is doomed; they can't
>>>  beat the economies of scale. Nor will most honest
>>>  business-sophonts do business with a shady tramp
>>>  freighter's crew when the fully bonded, easily sued
>>>  megacorp is an option.
>>>
>>>
>>>  For shipping volume
>>>  calculations, I recommend Far Trader (
>>> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/fartrader/
>>>  ); from what I recall, it produced very reasonable figures.
>>>  (The worked example calculating the traffic between the two
>>>  main Vegan worlds made my head spin.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at
>>>  11:59 AM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <nobody@simplelists.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  This
>>>  email was sent from yahoo.com which
>>>  does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists.
>>>  Therefore the sender's email address (philpugliese@yahoo.com)
>>>  has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message
>>>  follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  On Fri, 8/22/14, Timothy Collinson <timothy.collinson@port.ac.uk>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Subject: [TML] expected ship traffic
>>>
>>>   To: "tml@simplelists.com"
>>>  <tml@simplelists.com>
>>>
>>>   Date: Friday, August 22, 2014, 9:53 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Hi there,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Am I reading
>>>
>>>   this correctly?
>>>
>>>   page 435 of the T5 core
>>>
>>>   rules give a figure for 'expected ship traffic'
>>>  -
>>>
>>>   the expected interstellar ship traffic for a
>>>
>>>   starport.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   S = 10^Ix /
>>>
>>>   H
>>>
>>>   where:S = total
>>>
>>>   ships per week
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Ix = Importance H = Average Cargo Hold Capacity = 100 for
>>>  most
>>>
>>>   worlds
>>>
>>>   OK, so I'm looking at
>>>
>>>   Neala in Ilelish Sector whose importance = 1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   So I make that a total of 1
>>>
>>>   ship every 10 weeks.  And a B class
>>>
>>>   starport!
>>>
>>>   Is that right or am I
>>>
>>>   missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Nearby Gypsy has an
>>>
>>>   Importance of 2 so it manages 1 ship per week.  (And
>>>  again
>>>
>>>   a B class starport).
>>>
>>>   Is traffic really this
>>>
>>>   low?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   cheers
>>>
>>>   tc
>>>
>>>
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  If that's NOT a typo then it so long to MT's
>>>  interpretation of what 'maritime' (post-container
>>>  cargo 20th century Earth) means.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  However, even under the original CT definition (17th century
>>>  Earth), it seems a little 'light'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  BTW, how much cargo can the CT Free,Far, &
>>>  'Fat'Trader carry?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  p.s. I would argue that whether not not a world is on a J1
>>>  'Main' should also factor in as otherwise the
>>>  ubiquitous FreeTrader can't go there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ===================================================================================================
>>>
>>>  -----
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Craig Berry (http://google.com/+CraigBerry)
>>>  "Eternity is in love with the productions
>>>  of time." - William Blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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--
Joseph