On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 1:58 AM, Evyn MacDude <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's all about filthy Lucre, and the power it buys, with lots of
> little lords grubbing around working their patch the idea of making it
> larger probably seems like a good idea.
>

I can see this... and I can see a (slightly) more positive variation on it.

There's the "Corrupt Imperium" where every sophont is out for his own loot.
The IN would operate like the Spanish did in the New World - if
something useful is found, crush the natives into slave labor, take
what is wanted. The ship captains would skim X% of the take, give some
portion to the crew to keep them happy and loyal, and then send loot
up the chain of command... where it would be skimmed, and used as a
criteria of promotion.
The Imperial Marines would be the strong arm on the ground for new 'colonies'
The Imperial Army would keep the older 'colonies' in line
The IISS would have Scouts recommending Opiate producing worlds be
Interdicted, so that they had a safe source for the drugs they were
smuggling elsewhere.
In short, the military side of the old "Pacification Campaigns"
carried to every world.

The slightly more positive is the Machiavelli Imperium.
The Nobility and IN would use the minimum _cost_ in taking what was
wanted/needed from a world.
Rather than massive full planet subjugation, there would be specific
strikes here and there to make a point. There's be no slave labor
camps, but there are quotas for planetary production with threats of
what happens if they're not made.
The IISS might still Interdict a world of Poppy plants.... but they'd
be smuggling the refined dope to another world, where it is sold for
centicredits, because it keeps the restive populace calm and
non-revolting. Officially, of course, the IISS has nothing at all to
do with the _evil_ drug trade... think "Air America", but the
difference between the prior example and this one is that in the
prior, there's a couple of dozen Scouts in it to make money... and in
this scenario, the IISS approves of it for the reason that it advances
the Imperium's goals.

There is, of course, no reason the two don't intermingle and cross
over - the IN Admiral who is in charge of the ____ system, and treats
it as his personal playground, skimming up good looking women and
living in luxury while holding the threat of KEW strikes over the head
of the local miner's guild.  Or the group of Scouts who are taking 99%
of the drug production to ____, but 1% is being slipped off to other
locations and they're pocketing the money.  It may even be that
they're supposed to be selling 0.5% elsewhere to defray the cost of
the operation...

This is basically the "Cleon Method" taken to its full power extreme.

I can see the logic of this occurring - humans are, after all, human
in their flaws. I wouldn't see it likely unless the Imperium is
already in decline, though.
For the Imperium as written to really function well and grow, there
needs to be an almost Spartan mentality in the Nobility - a really
strong sense of nobless oblige, a deep knowledge that it is better to
die than to act dishonorably.
I think the Long Night is the impetus for that kind of mentality.
We have an example of the Ramshackle Empire, and for a long time
during the formation of the 3I, there's going to be very obvious
object lessons and reminders of the Long Night. There is going to be
story after story of the places that survived because the people in
charge stood their post and _did it right_ , and many other tales of
what happened to the worlds where those in charge skimmed and because
of that thousands or millions died.
There's a reference the the East India Company in this thread - and,
yes, I can see some of that. But I can also see the Nobles who learned
from the local equivalents of the Sepoy Mutiny that if you go _too
far_ in that direction, then you can lose it all. With the Long Night
as a mental Boogeyman, I can see them viewing "anywhere along those
lines" as a potential slippery slope to "too far"
This is the Imperium where the "Cleon Method" is used until a world is
a member of the Imperium, and then eased up (not fully stopped,
probably)

The reason I see the first two examples as only occuring if the
Imperium is in decline is that they have too much potential for
infighting between the parties. In the first example, I can see a
point where IN Admirals in charge of various systems begin acting like
modern Central America drug lords and having 'tiffs'... "I want X, and
I can just send warships to go get it" is a bad habit to get into,
because sooner or later you will want an "X" that someone else with
warships already has.  I can see the kind of economic stupidity
occurring which spark bigger wars coming from those tiffs.

Note that the power devolves to the military in the Darker views -
even if those officers have Noble titles, the power comes from the
military backing, not from the respect for the Nobility.  It's more
important to be Admiral than it is to be Count.

If the civilian populace _believes_ in the Nobility, then there is
much less issue with rebellion. If the example of the government is a
continuing "might makes right", then as soon as the people manage to
get their hands on what they think could be enough "might", then
you're going to have trouble... and in the "Constant Pacification"
mindset, it will be dealt with in a way that just reinforces the
concepts, and primes for another cycle of rebellion... worse, not only
will the civilians get that idea, but ship captains may decide there's
an easier route to promotion. Suddenly, you have an "Emperors of the
Flag" situation occurring all the way down to to the system level...

What keeps this from happening is the civilians and military have to
have a deeply instilled belief that the Government is Just. That is is
Good and Honest and Trustworthy.
There's two major ways to do this - the first, is for the government
to actually be just, good, honest and trustworthy. I think that part
of the clawing out of the Long Night would winnow for this.
The other way is the Austrian Method, presented by John Taylor Gatto
in several books. Here, the government indoctrinates the citizens from
an early age that it is Just, Good, Honest, and Trustworthy. This
tends to work for quite some time, so long as the indoctrination isn't
flawed in other ways. Done right, the indoctrination can program those
who will eventually go into government to believe so strongly that
they actually do act that way.

All in all, though, I think the Imperium, as large as it is, will have
areas where all variations on the above hold true. Systems and sectors
that are pure as the driven show, run by a Noble who is the ultimate
example of what they should be. Systems where the local government
should be tried under RICO. Systems where the government looks clean,
but there is a huge web of oligarchy and kleptocracy below the
surface.