Sensors Jim Vassilakos (18 Sep 2021 22:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Evyn MacDude (18 Sep 2021 22:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Kurt Feltenberger (18 Sep 2021 23:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (18 Sep 2021 23:07 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Kurt Feltenberger (18 Sep 2021 23:16 UTC)
Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Greg Nokes (18 Sep 2021 23:24 UTC)
Re: Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Mark Urbin (19 Sep 2021 14:10 UTC)
Re: Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Bruce Johnson (20 Sep 2021 18:55 UTC)
Re: Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Zane Healy (20 Sep 2021 23:27 UTC)
Re: Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Mark Urbin (21 Sep 2021 00:45 UTC)
Re: Crunchy vs Squishy [WAS: Re: [TML] Sensors] Phil Pugliese (21 Sep 2021 04:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (18 Sep 2021 23:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Evyn MacDude (19 Sep 2021 00:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Thomas Jones-Low (19 Sep 2021 00:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Evyn MacDude (19 Sep 2021 00:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (19 Sep 2021 16:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Jim Vassilakos (20 Sep 2021 23:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (21 Sep 2021 16:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Jim Vassilakos (21 Sep 2021 20:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (21 Sep 2021 21:13 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Kurt Feltenberger (21 Sep 2021 22:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (21 Sep 2021 23:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (21 Sep 2021 23:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (24 Sep 2021 19:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Timothy Collinson (25 Sep 2021 17:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (25 Sep 2021 19:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Nokes.Name (25 Sep 2021 21:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (26 Sep 2021 09:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Nokes.Name (26 Sep 2021 15:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (26 Sep 2021 16:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Nokes.Name (26 Sep 2021 16:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Timothy Collinson (27 Sep 2021 07:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Bruce Johnson (27 Sep 2021 17:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (27 Sep 2021 23:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Timothy Collinson (27 Sep 2021 07:00 UTC)
[TML] Dodgie by name, dodgy by nature(?) Alex Goodwin (27 Sep 2021 19:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (21 Sep 2021 23:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (22 Sep 2021 08:13 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Jim Vassilakos (22 Sep 2021 14:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors David Shaw (22 Sep 2021 15:07 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Jim Vassilakos (22 Sep 2021 16:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Thomas Jones-Low (22 Sep 2021 20:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (22 Sep 2021 19:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Rupert Boleyn (22 Sep 2021 20:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (22 Sep 2021 22:36 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Jim Vassilakos (23 Sep 2021 16:05 UTC)
Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Cian Witherspoon (23 Sep 2021 04:27 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Evyn MacDude (23 Sep 2021 04:55 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Cian Witherspoon (23 Sep 2021 06:39 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Rupert Boleyn (23 Sep 2021 06:54 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Cian Witherspoon (23 Sep 2021 07:15 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Rupert Boleyn (23 Sep 2021 06:13 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Cian Witherspoon (23 Sep 2021 06:46 UTC)
Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Rupert Boleyn (23 Sep 2021 06:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Alex Goodwin (19 Sep 2021 06:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] Sensors Phil Pugliese (19 Sep 2021 16:46 UTC)

Re: Cian Rants About dTons (Was Re: [TML] Sensors) Rupert Boleyn 23 Sep 2021 06:54 UTC


On 23Sep2021 1838, Cian Witherspoon - amber.narilka at gmail.com (via
tml list) wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 21:56 Evyn MacDude - evyn.macdude at gmail.com (via
> tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
>
>> Note CT77 is pretty clear on the volume but they use the term mass
>> displacement in tons. But they don't describe what that volume is.
>>
> So Mass Displacment is how ships measure their mass - and its complicated
> since you need to know the volume of the submerged part and the density of
> the displaced liquid to even start doing the math. In high school science
> (secondary school in the UK and related school systems I guess? Late
> teens), displacement is used just to find volume.
> My personal opinion/guess is that MWM and the other developers forward
> ported the ship displacement method into the games future instead of just
> measuring in mass, and people misunderstood that; not surprising, we're
> talking about wargame developers writing for the early rpg audience at a
> time when non-wargamers (a lot of whom were teens going through high school
> science classes) were really getting into the scene. GDW wrote for their
> typical war gaming audience and got picked up by a different crowd, this
> sort of misunderstood crosstalk was inevitable.
> For the best source I've found on measuring ship displacement:
> https://www.gjenvick.com/OceanTravel/ShipTonnage/DisplacementTonnage.html
Displacement was used as a way of measuring a ship's mass because it's
relatively easy. Put in dry-dock. Fill dry dock, measuring how much
water that takes. Compare with the normal requirement, the difference
being the submerged volume of the ship, which given that you know the
density of water, gives you the ship's mass.

As far as I can tell, you're saying that either spaceshipwrights in
Traveller measure a ship's mass by dropping it into liquid hydrogen
lakes, or that Marc Miller, & co. used a technical term without knowing
what it meant. Odd for wargamers from a company that tended to do its
research. Very odd considering how quickly they made it official that
they were talking about the volume of a ton of liquid hydrogen.

--
Rupert Boleyn <xxxxxx@gmail.com>