[Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Jeff Zeitlin
(11 Sep 2021 23:47 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion Alex Goodwin (17 Sep 2021 19:38 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Jeff Zeitlin
(17 Sep 2021 23:43 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Alex Goodwin
(18 Sep 2021 17:17 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Evyn MacDude
(18 Sep 2021 22:45 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Timothy Collinson
(20 Sep 2021 03:12 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Jeff Zeitlin
(16 Oct 2021 13:22 UTC)
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Re: [TML] [Freelance Traveller] FOR COMMENT/DISCUSSION - "Model" of religion
Alex Goodwin
(16 Oct 2021 14:38 UTC)
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Comments interspersed - have been busy in offline life. On 12/9/21 9:47 am, Jeff Zeitlin - editor at freelancetraveller.com (via tml list) wrote: > As the DGP religious profile generation process has some flaws, and is not > open to "public" use, I am attempting to work up an alternative from first > principles. Hear, hear! > One of the aspects that I have come up with is what I am > calling the "model" of the religion, and have come up with the following to > define it. Please critique and discuss. > > There is some prefatory material that defines some of the terms I use; I > have not included that material here. If you need clarification of a term, > please ask. "Prefatory"? Typo, or something _else_ you've stumbled across/are cooking up? > > * * * * * > > Model > > The goal for any religion is to provide a common worldview to bind a > society into a cohesive whole. Part of that common worldview involves the > rules for interacting with the religion itself. We call this the Model of > the religion, and have identified three basic possibilities: My first reaction here was to conflate 'society' with 'polity or large chunk thereof' and then ask 'why are you assuming a roughly 1:1 mapping?'. My second reaction was 'Hang on, it's one Zeitlin, J. _Ask_ before you make a goose of yourself.' > > Propitiatory > > The purpose of devotional activities is to either induce the Deitic > Principle to favorable action, or to deter the Deitic Principle from > unfavorable action. This includes devotional activities where no specific > request is made, such as prayers of thanks or of acknowledgement of > suzerainty. EXPN 'Deitic Principle'? A prefatory (sic) element? Otherwise, that seems to come across as implicitly assuming monotheism. IIUC, doesn't that rule out the majority (at least by number) of Terran religions, past and present? > > Ethical > > The purpose of devotional activities is to maintain society as a whole in a > functional mode viewed as positive, or to remind devotees of the need to so > maintain the society. This includes self-focussed activities that are > intended to make one a "better person" to the extent that the normal > behavior of the "better person" is favorable to maintaining society as > above. See comment above re "society". > > Transcendental > > The purpose of devotional activities is to bring oneself closer to some > idealized state, representing a "perfection" of the self, or to a state > where there is no distinction between the self and the Deitic Principle. > Occasionally, this is interpreted to focus on becoming "more/better than > human" or to develop abilities that are considered exceptional (for > example, psionics). (For individuals other than humans, substitute > appropriate species identifier, e.g., "more/better than > Vargr/Aslan/Virushi/Gurvin/etc.) Maybe substitute "baseline" for the specific species? > > A Note on Hybridization > > It is actually unusual for an "organic" religion (that is, one that > developed naturally, rather than being specifically 'designed') to be > purely in one of the three classes; often, a religion will change as the > society does, and a religion that might be classed as 'Ethical' may well > have 'held over' elements that would suggest a 'Propitiatory' model (e.g., > prayers before and after meals), or one that is principally > 'Transcendental' may also have elements of an 'Ethical' model regarding how > the Improved self should interact with those who are less Improved. Even > 'designed' religions may have 'mixed' aspects, as the designers will often > take acceptable aspects of other religions into their own for multiple > reasons, including increasing the "comfort levels" of the devotees > (familiarity of ritual) or deception (influence non-devotees and > prospective devotees toward the belief that the new religion is a > variation/reinterpretation of an older, more acceptable one). > I see you've noted some rank ordering of those three metamemes (Propitiatory / Ethical / Transcendental) already - I'd suspect even a designed religion that lasts long enough (however long that may be) would incorporate (whether by design or evolution) elements from the other metamemes. Otherwise, it would become an ex-religion, ceasing to be, and whose memetic processes are now only of interest to historians. How would a single-metameme-dominant religion, as a class, vary from one where two of them are roughly equal in import? Alex