Hi again Jeff,

I'm a retired USN Sonar Technician Submarine First Class Petty Officer (STS1/SS).

Tom Rux

> On 07/27/2020 2:20 PM Jeff Zeitlin <xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> wrote:
>
>
> It should also be noted that in the United States maritime services (USN,
> USCG), the enlisted ranks E-4 and above are called "Petty Officers".
>
> Based on discussions with USN and USCG personnel (and I believe we have at
> least one member of the list who is retired USCG), it appears that
> day-to-day usage in the maritime services is not by rank, but by rate: that
> is, while Joe Tinker is of _rank_ E-4 (Petty Officer Third Class), his
> _rating_ is that of 'Machinist', and is thus generally "Machinist [3]
> Tinker" rather than "Petty Officer Tinker".
>
> You can find information about US forces ranks and pay grades at the
> following URLs:
>
> Army:         https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/ranks
> Navy:         https://www.federalpay.org/military/navy/ranks
> Air Force:    https://www.federalpay.org/military/air-force/ranks
> Marine Corps: https://www.federalpay.org/military/marine-corps/ranks
> Coast Guard:  https://www.federalpay.org/military/coast-guard/ranks
>
> In general, while on paper, there are five "Warrant Officer" ranks (ranging
> from Warrant Officer 1 to Chief Warrant Officer 5), the actual appointment
> of personnel to these ranks is, in practice, slowly being phased out, and
> not all services have all five ranks represented in their tables of rank.
>
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:53:28 -0400, xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >US: WOs appointed by service secretary, dept secretary or
> >Commander-in-Chief. Commissioned Officers, albeit between the E-ranks and
> >the O-1 rank. CW2+ appointed by Commander-in-Chief. All flavours of Warrant
> >and Chief Warrant hold a warrant.
> >Canada: 3 senior enlisted ranks (above Sergeant - Warrant Officer, Master
> >Warrant Officer, and Chief Warrant Officer though the Navy calls them Petty
> >Officers (PO1, CPO1, CPO2)), appointments by Chief of Defense Staff, CWO
> >has a warrant from the Queen, others do not.
> >
> >Canadian Ranks look like:
> >
> >Other Ranks: (Junior Ranks)
> >Private
> >
> >Junior NCOs:
> >Corporal
> >Master Corporal*
> >
> >Senior NCMs:
> >Sergeant
> >
> >Warrant Officers:
> >Warrant Officer
> >Master Warrant Officer
> >Chief Warrant Officer**
> >
> >* Master Corporals hold authority over Corporals, but are still Corporals
> >(MCpl is an appointment, not a rank)
> >** CWO gets that Warrant from the Crown, but I don't think they get treated
> >in all ways as an Officer
> >
> >Traditionally, Warrant Officers (and PO1/CWO1/CWO2) are seen as
> >non-commissioned ranks, but they are not NCOs (that stops with Sergeant).
> >Their roles are not technical specialists like in the US, they are usually
> >2ics in various formations (battalions and up). They can command up to a
> >company, but usually we have officers for that.
> >
> >US Warrants are technical specialist commissioned officers, but they are
> >considered of lesser precedence than O-1 and higher ranks. They tend to be
> >advisors and can command formations but their focus is a technical one,
> >rather than tactical command.
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 2:27 PM Thomas RUX <xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi kaladorn,
> >>
> >> The USN was pretty much based on the RN with modifications with the
> >> President as the Commander in Chief versus the ruling Queen/King. Of course
> >> we also lost out on the rum ration.
> >>
> >> Tom Rux
> >>
> >> On 07/27/2020 10:18 AM xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the info, Tom.
> >>
> >> I was curious because your US commissions have a different basis than ours
> >> (I believe). Our still are a 'commission from the Queen' and I think yours
> >> somehow are based around Congress or some such? Your Warrant Officers work
> >> a bit differently too than ours (British system) do. I'm always interested
> >> in how different militaries operate as compared to the one I'm more
> >> familiar with.
> >>
> >> TomB
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:09 AM Thomas RUX < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi kaladorn,
> >>
> >> My apologies for the delay.
> >>
> >> On 07/25/2020 3:14 PM xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Let me ask a followup:
> >>
> >> Who does it apply to?
> >>
> >> Enlisted and officers in the USN and USMC.
> >>
> >> USN only or does it cover attached USMC ?
> >>
> >> The USMC is part of the Department of the Navy. The CO of the USMC
> >> detachment assigned to a ship would usually be the person conducting the
> >> Captain's Mast, however the ship's CO can also hold a Captain's Mast for
> >> the USMC.
> >>
> >> Does it only apply to non-commissioned ranks?
> >>
> >> Technically, all naval personnel can be judged by a Captain's mast.
> >>
> >> Does it include warrant officers?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >> Can officers have their commission revoked or only be reduced in rank?
> >>
> >> I was an NCO and never saw an officer go to Captain's Mast so my comments
> >> are probably OTL.
> >>
> >> My impression is that an officer can not have their commission revoked but
> >> there will be a strong suggestion that the offender resign their
> >> commission. In theory the officer can be busted in pay grade/rank, however
> >> the more likely course of action would be they would be barred from further
> >> promotions and not allowed to re-enlist.
> >>
> >> Tom Rux
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 16:29 Thomas RUX, < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi kaladorn and Alex,
> >>
> >> A Captain's Mast is a legal proceeding that the ship's Commanding Officer
> >> (CO)holds when a sailor (enlisted or officer) violates the Uniform Code of
> >> Military Justice. The hearing is non-judicial and the CO's judgement leaves
> >> no criminal record in the sailor's record. However, the punishments while
> >> in port can be restriction of not more than 60 days, extra duties for not
> >> more than 45 days, reduction in grade (rank), correctional custody for not
> >> more than 30 days, confinement on bread and water for not more than 3 days.
> >> At sea or ashore forfeiture of not more than half a month's pay per month
> >> for 2 months, or detention of half a month's pay per 3 months. The
> >> reduction in rank also throws your advancement cycle out of whack.
> >>
> >> Tom Rux
> >>
> >> On 07/25/2020 9:52 AM xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Administrative punishment (vs. a legal proceeding) if I understand
> >> correctly. It's not something you want to face. I believe it exists so that
> >> crews can deal with bad choices without having to leave too much of a
> >> permanent mark in somebody's personnel jacket.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:09 PM Alex Goodwin <
> >> xxxxxx@multitel.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 26/7/20 12:03 am, Thomas RUX wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > During my time in the USN 1975-1995 we did not legally have booze
> >> > onboard except for a bit held by the corpsman. I've got a cousin who
> >> > is currently serving in the USN and from what he tells me the policy
> >> > is still enforce.
> >> >
> >> > Of course, more often than not someone will have a go at making an
> >> > alcoholic beverage. Getting caught making the booze or bring any
> >> > onboard is going to result in the very least a Captain's mast.
> >> >
> >> > Tom Rux
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> What does "Captain's mast" translate to?  An official bollocking?
> >>
> >>
> >> Alex
> >>
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> --
> Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
> Freelance Traveller
>     The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
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