I will note that the OCR used to enable the cut/paste from all of the Classic
Traveller, JTAS, Megatraveller and TNE books is marginal at best. I have found
any attempt to cut/paste from these books always contains numerous spelling
errors, layout errors, missing characters, words, or entire paragraphs. So the
text in the book as written may be correct, but the cut/paste is almost always a
mess.

On 6/24/2020 2:35 AM, xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> Tom,
>
> You wrote:
> " "For every 3 armor levels of 40 (defensing ship) apply a -1 DM against all
> weapons on the surface explosions table and all but meson guns on the radiation
> damage table.""
>
> You indicated that was a cut and paste.
>
> Here's what my MT p 94 says:
>
> "For every 3 armor levels over 40 (defending ship) apply a -1 DM against all
> weapons on the surface explosion table and all but the meson guns on the
> radiation damage tables. "
>
> Note carefully the difference between "For every 3 armor levels of 40 (defensing
> ship)..." and "for every 3 armor levels OVER 40 (defending ship)".
>
> Every 3 armor levels of 40 is hard to parse as not being either
> a) every 3 armour levels (of 40)
> OR
> b) every (3 armour levels of 40 [each])
>
> Neither of those is as clear as what was actually in the manual ("every 3 armor
> levels over 40...").
>
> So, either something happened to your cut-and-paste or your MT Ref's guide is
> very different than mine. And the first clue was "defensing" isn't even a word...
>
> So, we agree on how it works, but that 'cut and paste' you included was messed
> up, which is why I had trouble parsing what was there.
>
> Logic led me to what is actually written in the manual and I just looked it up
> and pasted the text in my MT manual pg 94. It does not match what you included,
> but it does match what you and I both agree is the way things are to be resolved.
>
> So, there is no errata, because the actual text in the MT book (at least mine)
> is correctly worded (using "over 40" not "of 40" and using "defending" instead
> of "defensing").
>
> I don't know whether your manual is really screwed up (could have been an early
> printing?) or there was a cut-n-paste issue, but take a look at what you wrote
> previously then compare to what is there on pg94 again. I think some gremlin
> krept into your transcription somehow or else you need an updated Ref's manual.
>
> TomB
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:13 PM Thomas RUX <xxxxxx@comcast.net
> <mailto:xxxxxx@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>     __
>     Hi kaladorn,
>>     On 06/23/2020 3:05 PM xxxxxx@gmail.com <mailto:xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:08 PM Thomas RUX < xxxxxx@comcast.net
>>     <mailto:xxxxxx@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         __
>>         Hello all,
>>
>>         My last question here was about how to increase the armor value for MT
>>         planetoid and buffered planetoid hulls. Thanks to kaladorn I think I
>>         have a handle on how to add additional armor for these two hull
>>         configurations.
>>
>>         An off-shoot of the discuss asked what impact armor has on taking
>>         damage in combat.
>>
>>         Here is what I think happens when adding Armor to a hull.
>>
>>         1. Constructed Hulls are configuration types are open frame,
>>         needle/wedge, cone, cylinder, box, sphere, dome/disk, and irregular.
>>
>>         A. Select constructed hull configuration
>>         B.Selected the Armor Type applying the applicable weight and price
>>         modifiers to the hulls weight and cost.
>>         C. The minimum armor protection for a spacecraft or starship hull is 40.
>>         D. The Armor Table indicates that a protection value applies a further
>>         modifier to the weight and cost of the hull
>>
>>         2. Planetoid and Buffered Planetoid hulls
>>
>>         A. Planetoid hull's 20% of unused material provides an Armor Value of
>>         50 and the buffered planetoid hull's 35% of unused material provides
>>         an Armor Value of 56 at no additional increase to weight and price.
>>         B. To additional armor select from the Armor Type Table and apply the
>>         appropriate weight and price modifiers.
>>         C. The additional armor value for a Planetoid hull is increase from 50
>>         to 53. Referring to the Armor Table the armor protection value of 53
>>         has a modifier of 104. An armor value of 50 has a modifier of 80. The
>>         modifier applied to weight and price is 104 - 80 = 24.
>>
>>         3. Armor and Combat MT Referee's Manual p. 94 DMs for Ship Damage table:
>>         "For every 3 armor levels of 40 (defensing ship) apply a -1 DM against
>>         all weapons on the surface explosions table and all but meson guns on
>>         the radiation damage table."
>>
>>
>>     What do you think the front of that sentence means?
>     The quoted text means that for every 3 points of armor above 40 I get a DM
>     of -1 applied to weapons that cause a surface explosion which are fusion
>     guns, plasma guns, lasers, missiles, particle accelerators, and
>     disintegrators per the Surface explosion table.  The same Armor DM is
>     applied to radiation damage caused by particle accelerators, nuclear and
>     antimatter missiles. Armor has no effect on meson guns since the energy is
>     released in a ship's interior.
>>     "For every 3 armour levels of the 40 (the defending ship has), apply a -1
>>     DM against all weapons on the surface explosion table and all but the
>>     meson guns on the radiation damage table" and thus.... 40/3 = 13 (rounding
>>     down) so apply a -13 DM against all weapons as specified? I think a -13 DM
>>     is HUGE.
>>
>>     OR
>>
>>     "For every 3 armour levels of 40 (defending ship), apply a -1 DM against
>>     all weapons on the surface explosions table and all but the yada yada"
>>     taken to mean that you need to have 3 levels of armour of 40 (so 120?)
>>     needed to get a -1 DM? That's not likely to ever exist.
>>
>>     So what's the real story?
>>
>>     Let's assume starship damage *begins* at 40 (armour 0 in old HG terms, but
>>     40 in MT to deal with when people shoot LAGs, Tac Missiles, etc. at
>>     Starships).
>>
>>     A different wording might be what they really meant since both of the
>>     readings I outline above are not reasonable:
>     I had no problem with the wording as written.
>>     "For every 3 armour levels more than 40 (defending ship has), apply a -1
>>     DM against all weapons on the yada yada" which would mean:
>>
>>     Armour 43: -1 DM
>>     Armour 46: -2 DM
>>     Armour 49: -3 DM
>>     Armour 52: -4 DM
>>     Armour 55: -5 DM
>>     etc.
>>
>>     I think some heavily armoured tanks are 57 (-5 DM) and some ships may
>>     reach up towards 67 (-9 DM) but that's an awful lot of armour.
>>
>>     That would (aside) mean the 50 planetoid hull was a -3 DM and the 56
>>     buffered planetoid was -5 DM, both of which feel like they might make
>>     sense for an asteroid hull.
>>
>>     Armour 42 and below would be no modifier on the tables mentioned because
>>     those levels of armour don't mean much to the weapons using those tables.
>>
>>     I think that's what is meant. I will see if there is an errata on this. If
>>     not, I think the wording there needs cleared up.
>     Again, I had no problem understanding the wording since I just read the text
>     without trying to add an spin to them. Of course after twenty years of
>     following maintenance requirement cards step by step helped. I will admit
>     that this literal way of reading also causes me to go off on the wrong
>     track.;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>         A. A planetoid hull with an armor value of 50 generates a -3 DM on
>>         both the surface and with the exception of a meson gun damage table.
>>
>>         Do I have a handle on this area?
>>
>>
>>     If the wording works more like I think it should (and it does need the
>>     English cleaned up or your transcription perhaps?), then yes. And -5 for a
>>     buffered planetoid.
>     Again, I had no problem with the English and my transcription of the rule
>     from p. 94 was a copy and paste from from my PDF copy of the Referee's
>     Manual after comparing the information with my softcover book.
>
>     Thank you for confirming that I have some clue on how MT armor is added to
>     planetoid hulls and how that armor is used to minimize damage.
>
>     Tom Rux
>
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--
         Thomas Jones-Low
Work:	xxxxxx@softstart.com
Home:   xxxxxx@gmail.com