[TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(02 May 2014 04:36 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(02 May 2014 06:40 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Knapp
(02 May 2014 06:44 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(02 May 2014 07:37 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Knapp
(02 May 2014 18:11 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(04 May 2014 06:02 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(04 May 2014 06:57 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Bruce Johnson
(04 May 2014 14:31 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(05 May 2014 04:24 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
shadow@xxxxxx
(05 May 2014 09:45 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Bruce Johnson
(05 May 2014 16:48 UTC)
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RE: [TML]Chemistry Question
Anthony Jackson
(06 May 2014 21:11 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(08 May 2014 04:05 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(08 May 2014 04:07 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(08 May 2014 04:10 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Knapp
(08 May 2014 05:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(08 May 2014 06:43 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(08 May 2014 08:14 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(08 May 2014 15:17 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Bruce Johnson
(08 May 2014 16:01 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question shadow@xxxxxx (09 May 2014 08:48 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Richard Aiken
(09 May 2014 09:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Craig Berry
(09 May 2014 23:38 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Bruce Johnson
(09 May 2014 14:47 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(09 May 2014 15:51 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Knapp
(09 May 2014 20:54 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Bruce Johnson
(09 May 2014 21:50 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Phil Pugliese
(09 May 2014 23:09 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Tim
(10 May 2014 07:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Phil Pugliese
(10 May 2014 17:10 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Rob O'Connor
(10 May 2014 08:45 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(10 May 2014 21:13 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Phil Pugliese
(10 May 2014 22:04 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(11 May 2014 04:40 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(11 May 2014 06:22 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Phil Pugliese
(11 May 2014 15:57 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Bruce Johnson
(12 May 2014 19:04 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Phil Pugliese
(12 May 2014 19:13 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Bruce Johnson
(12 May 2014 20:52 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(12 May 2014 21:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Phil Pugliese
(12 May 2014 22:21 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
youngerpliny@xxxxxx
(12 May 2014 21:41 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(11 May 2014 06:47 UTC)
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Re:[TML]ChemistryQuestion
Rob O'Connor
(12 May 2014 08:48 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(12 May 2014 19:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(12 May 2014 20:49 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(13 May 2014 00:22 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(14 May 2014 02:45 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(14 May 2014 03:53 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(14 May 2014 04:20 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Kelly St. Clair
(14 May 2014 06:11 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Bruce Johnson
(14 May 2014 17:37 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(14 May 2014 18:00 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Bruce Johnson
(14 May 2014 18:51 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Jeffrey Schwartz
(14 May 2014 19:09 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Bruce Johnson
(14 May 2014 20:20 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(14 May 2014 20:35 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(15 May 2014 03:51 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(15 May 2014 05:33 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(15 May 2014 07:44 UTC)
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Grey Goo (Was: ChemistryQuestion)
Mikko Parviainen
(15 May 2014 08:39 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Grey Goo (Was: ChemistryQuestion)
Tim
(15 May 2014 11:38 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(16 May 2014 06:20 UTC)
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RE: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Anthony Jackson
(16 May 2014 16:29 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(20 May 2014 06:28 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Knapp
(20 May 2014 17:55 UTC)
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RE: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Anthony Jackson
(20 May 2014 18:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Richard Aiken
(21 May 2014 08:14 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Tim
(21 May 2014 13:05 UTC)
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Re: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Phil Pugliese
(23 May 2014 08:09 UTC)
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RE: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Anthony Jackson
(14 May 2014 20:44 UTC)
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RE: [TML]ChemistryQuestion
Anthony Jackson
(14 May 2014 20:52 UTC)
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Re: [TML]Chemistry Question
Knapp
(06 May 2014 20:53 UTC)
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On 8 May 2014 at 4:14, Richard Aiken wrote: > > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Tim <xxxxxx@little-possums.net> wrote: > On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 12:05:24AM -0400, Richard Aiken wrote: > > Those favoring irreducible complexity have a point that a chemical > > process with ~23 steps (none of which do anything alone or in any > other > > combination of each other) > > They can stop right there. Those steps *do* do something without the > full cycle. I don't know when your text was written, so maybe it's > just obsolete rather than wilfully blind. > IIRC, the point was that parts of the cycle do not do anything useful > to *that* organism. That is, the organism doesn't gain any benefit > from any of the intermediate steps, only from the end product of the > full process. Sorry, but the article actually says the exact opposite. Just because those steps don't do anything useful other than as part of the Krebs cycle in the *current* organism doesn't mean they weren't steps in some *other* process in ancestor organisms. They've even found evidence of those other uses in some cases. Which leads to the ID folks demanding that they *prove* that it was true for all steps. This is the same game as the old "where are the intermediate fossils?" BS. They ask that, then when an intermediate is found, demand why there aren't intermediates between it and the original two. In short, they are playing "move the target", *knowing* that finding what they want is nigh on impossible. And when it is found, they shift targets because the odds of finding evidence (that they'll be forced to accept) for *all* the steps are virtually nil. -- Leonard Erickson (aka shadow) shadow at shadowgard dot com