Cutter Module Q
Jeff Zeitlin
(25 Nov 2019 23:36 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Thomas Jones-Low
(25 Nov 2019 23:47 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeff Zeitlin
(26 Nov 2019 21:58 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Rupert Boleyn
(27 Nov 2019 12:41 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Ethan McKinney
(28 Nov 2019 07:46 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Ethan McKinney
(26 Nov 2019 01:30 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q Jeff Zeitlin (26 Nov 2019 22:05 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Ethan McKinney
(26 Nov 2019 22:12 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Kurt Feltenberger
(26 Nov 2019 02:02 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeff Zeitlin
(26 Nov 2019 22:10 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Kelly St. Clair
(26 Nov 2019 02:20 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Rupert Boleyn
(26 Nov 2019 05:50 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Ethan McKinney
(26 Nov 2019 15:43 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Bruce Johnson
(26 Nov 2019 16:04 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Cian Witherspoon
(26 Nov 2019 16:07 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Ethan McKinney
(26 Nov 2019 16:45 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Rupert Boleyn
(27 Nov 2019 12:37 UTC)
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Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Cian Witherspoon
(27 Nov 2019 13:04 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Rupert Boleyn
(27 Nov 2019 13:50 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Rupert Boleyn
(27 Nov 2019 14:02 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Cian Witherspoon
(27 Nov 2019 14:18 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Rupert Boleyn
(27 Nov 2019 14:21 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Cian Witherspoon
(27 Nov 2019 14:33 UTC)
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Drop tanks
Thomas RUX
(27 Nov 2019 16:20 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Phil Pugliese
(28 Nov 2019 02:44 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Ethan McKinney
(28 Nov 2019 03:38 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Phil Pugliese
(28 Nov 2019 21:15 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Thomas RUX
(02 Dec 2019 20:28 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Jeffrey Schwartz
(09 Dec 2019 15:32 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Drop tanks
Thomas RUX
(09 Dec 2019 15:52 UTC)
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Re: Mass vs Volume (was Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q)
Thomas RUX
(27 Nov 2019 14:24 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeff Zeitlin
(26 Nov 2019 22:16 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeffrey Schwartz
(26 Nov 2019 15:12 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Rupert Boleyn
(26 Nov 2019 15:22 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeffrey Schwartz
(26 Nov 2019 15:31 UTC)
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Re: [TML] Cutter Module Q
Jeff Zeitlin
(26 Nov 2019 22:20 UTC)
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OK, points (no pun intended) noted; the question now becomes something along the lines of "Are normal cutter ops handled at velocities where the aerodynamics becomes enough of an issue that we'd 'need' a 'fairing collar' or a new class of cutter-like vessel designed for the box module?" The original question specified "cutter-compatible fittings" specifically so that the same control/drive framework could be used, provided that the aerodynamics question is ignored. Also, has anyone designed a "truck" that could use either the standard cylinder or the proposed box as a "trailer"? On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 17:30:30 -0800, Ethan McKinney <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: >The square module would affect the cutter's aerodynamics and might change >the structural requirements for the module. > >At subsonic speeds, the cutter simply has so much power, and effectively >infinite fuel, that it doesn't care about the additional drag. (The flat >face of the module hitting the airflow is bad; the extreme turbulent flow >is worse.) This continues in the transonic and low supersonic regimes, >although the dynamic pressure on the exposed corners of the module will >build rapidly. If it was a shipping container, this would start to be a >problem. Assuming that the cutter has advanced fly-by-wire controls with >artificial dynamic stability, the buffetting caused by the exposed corners >should be controllable. > >As the cutter's Mach number increases, dynamic pressure on the corners also >increases. Still, the cutter has so much power that it can simply push >through this. At some point, you're going to be concerned about the >longitudinal crush resistance of the module (pushing on the front to crush >it toward the back). The cutter as a whole is very strong, but I would >design normal modules with the assumption that the front and rear faces >wouldn't be exposed to high dynamic pressure. At worst, this means some >additional mass and volume devoted to structure, but it should be taken >into account. > >I'd want to have fairings added to the cutter to cover all eight corners of >the module (front and rear). This would be a huge help with buffetting, if >nothing else. Of course, the fairings have to be strong enough to take the >pressure on them, not tear off in a high negative-G maneuver (from the >perspective of the fairing), etc. Yes, at TL-12 this is all pretty trivial, >I'm sure. There are real-world missiles that go to a square cross-section >in the mid-body, although their cross-sections have rounded corners. > >If you don't add the fairings, things get really fun when you enter the >hypersonic regime. The blunt nose of a cutter is actually a decent shape >for ballistic reentry (or faster). (See >https://www.airspacemag.com/space/how-the-spaceship-got-its-shape-137293282/ >) The cutter nose is not so good for subsonic, transonic, or even >supersonic drag, but, again, it has enough power that it gets to not care a >lot of the time. When exposed corners are hypersonic, they become hot spots >where the atmosphere gets compressed and super-heated. Make sure that you >have good thermal properties, insulation, cooling, materials that aren't >weakened by extreme heat, etc., etc. because the front of the module is >well ahead of the cutter's center of mass, any deviation from a zero angle >of attack (pointing straight into the airflow) will cause a powerful >dynamic instability reinforcing the movement. In other words, if you yaw a >bit to the right, the left corners will "catch" the hypersonic flow >directly. Be sure that you have extremely strong controls, preferably >thruster plates capable of 15G lateral thrust, or extendable control >surfaces at the tail. > >On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 15:36 Jeff Zeitlin <xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> >wrote: > >> The standard cutter module is a cylinder, given as 15m long and 6m >> diameter, for a displacement of 30dT. However, because of the shape, less >> than the full 30dT is usable. >> >> What are the ramifications of building a module with cutter-compatible >> fittings, but square in cross-section, 6m wide, 6m high, and 15m long, for >> a total (and usable) volume of 40dT? >> >> >> ®Traveller is a registered trademark of >> Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2018. Use of >> the trademark in this notice and in the >> referenced materials is not intended to >> infringe or devalue the trademark. >> >> -- >> Jeff Zeitlin, Editor >> Freelance Traveller >> The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource >> xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com >> http://www.freelancetraveller.com >> >> Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following >> enterprises for hosting services: >> >> onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io) >> The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) >> ----- >> The Traveller Mailing List >> Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml >> Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com >> To unsubscribe from this list please go to >> http://archives.simplelists.com >----- >The Traveller Mailing List >Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml >Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com >To unsubscribe from this list please go to >http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=uVyfonVzlsGwnSKN2tn21umMrgO3BRd9 ®Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2018. Use of the trademark in this notice and in the referenced materials is not intended to infringe or devalue the trademark. -- Jeff Zeitlin, Editor Freelance Traveller The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com http://www.freelancetraveller.com Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following enterprises for hosting services: onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io) The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)