Hello again Rupert,

> On November 8, 2019 at 4:26 PM Rupert Boleyn <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 09Nov2019 1254, Thomas RUX wrote:
>
> > Bending the rules and using a small craft cabin you would have a ship
> > of 103 tons. Following the information provided in CT Supplement 7 my
> > calculations using CT LBB 2 1977/1981 using a 100-ton standard hull
> > with a J4 Type-B drive with 40 tons of fuel, Bridge, Model/4
> > computer, and two staterooms I get 13 tons of space available. With
> > the remaining fuel tonnage the CT Supplement 7 entry of "Jump drives
> > carry power plant capacities and functions." suggests there is enough
> > fuel for almost ten days of power.
> >
> > >  Almost makes me think that whoever designed it didn't really read the rules!

> > I've got a couple of theories: The person who designed the X-Boat
> > used 1. an early version of the design rules. 2. used the wiggle room
> > provided in the books to tweak the design to fit, basically creating
> > home brew rules.
>
> Well, if they used the '77 rules (and the '81 edition wasn't out when
> the X-boat first appears) they get to use a model/1bis rather than a
> model/4 computer, saving 3 tons. Also in the '77 edition you do not have
> to have a power plant if there's no manoeuvre drive (B2, p.13 only
> mentions having to match the size of the manoeuvre drive). With 10 days
> power fuel there's plenty of room for a couple of people, some cargo,
> and the data banks, given that the last are whatever size the referee likes.
>

I agree the CT LBB 2 1977/1981 was not printed when CT Supplement 7 1980 was came out, however CT LBB 5 HG 1979 was in print. I'm also guessing that my copy of CT LBB 5 HG 2e 1980 1st printing was released before or at the same time as CT Supplement 7 1980.

On page 23 of my CT LBB 5 HG 1979 2nd printing is the following: "Drives: Three types of drives are required for starships - maneuver drives, jump drives, and power plants. Non-starships may omit the jump drive. Custom-built drives must be produced and installed, while observing restrictions as to tech level and interior space...."

The cited CT LBB 5 HG 1979 sentence in my understanding clearly states that a starship requires a maneuver drive, jump drive, and power plant.

From CT LBB 5 HG 2e 1980 1st printing page 22: "Drives: Three types of drives are required for starships - maneuver drive, power plants, and jump drives. Non-starships may omit the jump drives. Some ships (such as express boats) omit the maneuver drives. All ships require power plants. Custom-built drives must be produced and installed while observing resrictions as to tech level and interior space. It is possible to include standard drives (at standard prices) from Book 2 if they will otherwise meet the ship's requirements; such drives use fuel as indicated by the formulas in Book 2."

The material from CT LBB 5 HG 2e 1980 1st printing clearly allows the maneuver drive to be omitted from starships and requires that all ships have a power plant.

The complete "The Engineering Section" from CT LBB 2 1977 7th printing pages 11 and 13 is shown below.

"The Engineering Section: Each starship is fitted with a power plant (to provide internal power and power for the maneuver drive), a maneuver drive for interplanetary travel), and a jump drive (for interstellar jumps). Each is essential to the definition of a starship. The drives and power plants table lists the 24 different  types of maneuver drives, jump drives, and power plants available, as well as their costs (in milliom of credits) and there mass displacements (in tons).  Only one of each may be installed in the engineering section, and the sum of the mass dispalcements of all three may not exceed the mass displacement of the enineering section of the hull. It is important to note, from the maximum drive potential table, that some drive and power plant types will not function in certain types of hulls (those situation indicated by a dash); the drives and power plants table also indicates also indicates that some drives will not fit into some hulls. It is also possible to fit a set of drives and power plant into a hull and then to have insufficient tonnage remaining for fuel, basic controls, or life support. The completeness is intended to cover situations where custom hulls are produced. A jump capacity of greter than 6 (or an acceleration of greater than 6Gs) cannot not be achieved with the 24 drive types listed in the table.

The installed power plant must be of a letter type at least equal to the drive letter of the installed maneuver drive (the power plant letter may be higher than the maneuver drive letter)."

On CT LBB 2 1977 page 11 the first two sentences are:

"The Engineering Section: Each starship is fitted with a power plant (to provide internal power and power for the maneuver drive), a maneuver drive for interplanetary travel), and a jump drive (for interstellar jumps). Each is essential to the definition of a starship...."

These two sentences clearly state to me that a starship has a power plant, maneuver drive, and a jump drive.

My understanding is that the power plant provides the energy to operate the internal systems of life support, the basic controls (computer?), and when installed weapons. Additionally the power plant provides the energy needed by the maneuver drive to provide thrust.

The complete sentence referenced to on CT LBB 2 1977 page 13 in the post is: "The installed power plant must be of a letter type at least equal to the drive letter of the installed maneuver drive (the power plant letter may be higher than the maneuver drive letter)."

The sentence above I agree states the power plant must have at least the same drive type letter or that the letter can be higher than the maneuver drive. For example: A Maneuver Drive Type-A has been installed which means that the power plant must be at least a Type-A  but could be Type-B or higher.

Even if the maneuver drive is omitted my understandinf of the Engineering Section requirements a power plant must be installed to provide internal power to run life support, computer, and weapons.

> The rules in the '81 edition make things much harder and require house
> rules on the power plant, etc. Book 5, 1st edition makes it fairly easy,
> even with a power plant - there's certainly room for a manoeuvre drive.
> B5, 2nd edition isn't quite as generous (power plants are bigger when
> under TL15), but still has lots of free space.

I ran the Express Boat through CT LBB 2 1977, CT LBB 2 1977/1981, CT LBB 5 HG 1979, and CT LBB 5 HG 2e 1980.

1. CT LBB 2 1977

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B is 15 tons with 40 tons of fuel, 14 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/1bis computer, and 2 staterooms leaves 2 tons for cargo.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B is 15 tons with 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B is 7 tons with 14 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/1bis computer, and 2 staterooms exceeds the 100-ton capacity by 5 tons.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with is 15 tons 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B is 7 tons with 14 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/1bis computer, and 1 stateroom exceeds the 100-ton capacity by 1 ton.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with is 15 tons 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B is 7 tons with 13 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/1bis computer, and 1 stateroom leaves no cargo capability except for using some of the stateroom.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with is 15 tons 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B is 7 tons with 12 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/1bis computer, and 1 stateroom leaves 1 ton for cargo.

2. CT LBB 2 1981

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B with 14 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/4 computer, and 2 stateroom exceeds the 100-ton hull capacity by 4 tons.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B with 13 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/4 computer, and 1 stateroom does not leave any cargo space.

A custom TL 10 100-ton hull with a J4 Type-B with 40 tons of fuel, Power Plant-4 Type-B with 12 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/4 computer, and 1 stateroom leaves 1 ton of cargo space.

3. CT LBB 5 HG 1979 and CT LBB 5 HG 2e 1980

A custom TL 13 100-ton hull with a custom J4 drive is 20 tons plus 40 tons of fuel, a custom Power Plant-4 is 12 tons plus 4 tons of fuel, 20 ton bridge, Model/4 Computer of 4 tons, and one 4 ton stateroom exceeds the hull capacity by 4 tons.

Cutting the Power plant fuel to 1.5 tons still exceeds hull capacity by 1.5 tons.

By using a small craft cabin and having 1.5 tons of fuel there is a 0.5 ton cargo capacity. Upping the fuel to 2 tons there is no cargo capacity.

> I can't be bothered checking out MT or TNE, but I'd be surprised if they
> didn't have free space too.

A MT TL 13 100-ton Express Boat with J4, M4, and Power Plant-4, if my calculations are correct has approximately 27 displacement tons of space left open.

I used the TNE Rb-98r spreadsheet created by Ragnar Granit and the TL 13 00-ton Express Boat with J4, M4, and Power Plant-4, if my calculations are correct has approximately 11.6 displacement tons of space left open.