FTL travel David Shaw (28 Mar 2019 14:14 UTC)
(missing)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (02 Apr 2019 16:38 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question James Catchpole (02 Apr 2019 19:00 UTC)
(missing)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (02 Apr 2019 20:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Bill Rutherford (02 Apr 2019 20:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Billye Gilbert (02 Apr 2019 21:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (02 Apr 2019 23:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (02 Apr 2019 23:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question James Catchpole (03 Apr 2019 00:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Rupert Boleyn (03 Apr 2019 11:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question James Catchpole (03 Apr 2019 00:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Bruce Johnson (03 Apr 2019 16:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (03 Apr 2019 16:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question James Catchpole (03 Apr 2019 20:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (03 Apr 2019 22:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Rupert Boleyn (04 Apr 2019 03:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (04 Apr 2019 20:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (04 Apr 2019 20:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (03 Apr 2019 22:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Christopher Sean Hilton (04 Apr 2019 19:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question shadow@xxxxxx (05 Apr 2019 06:34 UTC)
(missing)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Catherine Berry (28 Mar 2019 17:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel David Shaw (29 Mar 2019 17:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Tim (28 Mar 2019 22:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Richard Aiken (29 Mar 2019 05:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Tim (29 Mar 2019 06:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Richard Aiken (30 Mar 2019 06:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Kurt Feltenberger (28 Mar 2019 22:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel Catherine Berry (28 Mar 2019 22:38 UTC)
Re: [TML] FTL travel shadow@xxxxxx (30 Mar 2019 04:26 UTC)
[TML] Transponder question Bill Rutherford (02 Apr 2019 13:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Rupert Boleyn (04 Apr 2019 21:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (04 Apr 2019 21:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Rupert Boleyn (04 Apr 2019 22:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (04 Apr 2019 23:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Kurt Feltenberger (04 Apr 2019 22:36 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (04 Apr 2019 23:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Richard Aiken (05 Apr 2019 00:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Cian Witherspoon (05 Apr 2019 01:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Kurt Feltenberger (05 Apr 2019 01:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (05 Apr 2019 20:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (05 Apr 2019 21:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (05 Apr 2019 21:36 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Kurt Feltenberger (05 Apr 2019 23:02 UTC)
(missing)
[TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (06 Apr 2019 02:01 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (06 Apr 2019 20:38 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (06 Apr 2019 22:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 01:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (07 Apr 2019 02:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 03:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (07 Apr 2019 04:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 04:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (07 Apr 2019 05:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 06:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (07 Apr 2019 22:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (07 Apr 2019 22:05 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 02:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (07 Apr 2019 02:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (07 Apr 2019 03:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (07 Apr 2019 22:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (08 Apr 2019 00:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (08 Apr 2019 04:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (08 Apr 2019 06:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (08 Apr 2019 19:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Catherine Berry (08 Apr 2019 19:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kelly St. Clair (09 Apr 2019 02:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Catherine Berry (09 Apr 2019 16:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (09 Apr 2019 20:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Catherine Berry (09 Apr 2019 20:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (09 Apr 2019 20:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (09 Apr 2019 21:38 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Rupert Boleyn (10 Apr 2019 06:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (10 Apr 2019 15:30 UTC)
[TML] Realistic Solomani Confederation? Kenneth Barns (14 Apr 2019 13:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (10 Apr 2019 15:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Kenneth Barns (09 Apr 2019 21:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Catherine Berry (09 Apr 2019 21:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (10 Apr 2019 15:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Realistic Rebellion? Phil Pugliese (09 Apr 2019 19:49 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Richard Aiken (13 Apr 2019 05:23 UTC)
(missing)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (14 Apr 2019 02:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Rupert Boleyn (14 Apr 2019 02:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (14 Apr 2019 21:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Nicole Susans (14 Apr 2019 03:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Kenneth Barns (14 Apr 2019 05:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (14 Apr 2019 22:08 UTC)
(missing)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Richard Aiken (14 Apr 2019 02:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Graham Donald (13 Apr 2019 08:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (13 Apr 2019 13:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Nicole Susans (14 Apr 2019 01:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Nicole Susans (15 Apr 2019 02:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (15 Apr 2019 18:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (15 Apr 2019 20:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (17 Apr 2019 02:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Catherine Berry (17 Apr 2019 16:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (17 Apr 2019 20:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Richard Aiken (20 Apr 2019 01:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (21 Apr 2019 20:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Nicole Susans (15 Apr 2019 22:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (16 Apr 2019 22:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Bruce Johnson (15 Apr 2019 22:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Phil Pugliese (16 Apr 2019 22:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] Transponder question Kurt Feltenberger (17 Apr 2019 00:52 UTC)

Re: [TML] FTL travel Tim 28 Mar 2019 22:26 UTC

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 02:14:27PM +0000, David Shaw wrote:
> I've been thinking - never a good sign. I understand that good old uncle
> Albert's theories state that FTL travel isn't possible, because - and I'm
> paraphrasing from memory here, so I could well be wrong - if you jump from
> A to B, some observer at C could see you arrive before you depart, leading
> to all sorts of nasty time-travel paradoxes.

No, it's more subtle than that.

If relativity accurately describes the universe, then any physical
phenomena that are permitted relative to one inertial reference frame
are also permitted relative to any other.  So if it is possible to
travel 1 parsec in 1 week from one inertial reference frame (say, one
comoving with Sol), then is also possible relative to any other
inertial reference frame.

The trouble is that in other reference frames, the division between
"space" and "time" isn't the same - they're related the the first via
Lorentz transforms that behave somewhat like rotations.  So if it's
physically possible to jump 170 light-weeks (1 parsec) spinward and 1
week futureward, then it's necessarily also possible to jump 170.009
light-weeks spinward and -2 weeks futureward.  This isn't *yet* time
travel, but some explanations confusingly stop here.

Now from there, you can give a message to some other ship that jumps
170 light-weeks antispinward and 1 week futureward, and it ends up at
a point 0.009 light-weeks spinward and -1 week futureward from the
starting point.  A radio signal from there will arrive at the starting
point 0.991 weeks before the first ship left.

This is time travel, and nothing but the suppositions of FTL travel
and relativity were required to derive it.  The means by which FTL was
accomplished were irrelevant.  In Traveller, the second ship could
avoid the final radio signal step with a very slightly longer jump to
the actual starting point, but here I am assuming nothing more about
the FTL than that it can go 1 parsec in about 1 week.

- Tim