Tom,
I have know enough people in the military to speak with some authority. For most its a job, and one they train to do well. Adventurous types that seek some sort of a thrill are not welcome.
SEAL training is famous for physical selection, but few know about the psych tests which is the reason most drop out. A SEAL, for that matter all covert operatives, are required to at the same time have an iron will and a very elastic mindset ever contemplating alternative courses of action based on changes EXPECTED to occur during a mission. They will follow SOPs, but must be prepared to improvise at a drop of a hat. This is not 'adventure' but survival. Traveller is a game, but a good GM can teach PCs how to survive also, rather than have a memorable 'death'.
This was my point.
A misjump in canon is not an 'adventure' but certain death with no out option. It is a game feature incompatible with Traveller design thinking as I knew it in the 80s. It is therefore something to be fixed, because no group of PCs would want to be told 'game over, all dead from boredom'.
So very much on topic.
Greg
Hello Greg Chalik,First, I apologize for continuing this what is, in my opinion, off the topic Tracking spaceships in Jump TU, was: Instant City. Next, under the definitions in Traveller only starships can jump between starships.I do not consider placing myself in harms way or the possibly of doing so to be an adventureThe SEALs deployed in hostile country are not having an adventure since one tiny mistake can compromise the mission and/or get them killed. While in route to their mission area they are passengers on the transport vehicle and depending on how long the trip they will eat, sleep, and go over the plan trying to minimize the risks, When not deployed they are at their base standing watches, training, and go home.Naval aviators taking-off and landing on the flight deck, by your definition, have more adventure, by what I think is your definition, than the SEALs every time they fly. Once in the air all sorts of events can occur that have the potential to kill them. That is a different mind set and personality.Volunteering to serve on a vessel designed to sink itself, stay sunk for days making holes in the ocean, and at the end re-float itself to return to port is a different mind set and personality. Heck, just going to sea in or out of the military takes a different mind set and personality.Climbing a mountain, while potentially dangerous, any type of racing such as in cars, planes, ships, or any other device is an adventure in my opinion. Doing a job that has the potential to kill you is not an adventure in my book whether of not you stand your watch or punch the time clock then go home or hit the bunk/bed.You have admitted that there are some things not in your sphere of knowledge, in my opinion this is one of those areas unless you have put time in the military or other job that has the potential of causing your death.Finally, when I started, like a lot of people, playing D&D and transitioned to Traveller I noticed there was a better chance of killing off characters than a miss-jump in Traveller. I have also found that, in the about fifteen game sessions I played in, there was a better chance of loosing the entire party with or without the possiblity of a miss-jump in the mix.Tom R
From: "Greg Chalik" <mrg3105@gmail.com>
To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:47:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TML]Tracking spaceships inJump TU, was: Instantcity
Thomas,
Most people in any of the World's navies do their watch and go home/bunk. I very much doubt if any officer or enlisted are looking for 'adventure' aside from the shore-leave type, avoiding either local police or MPs, and local criminals also.
On duty, most navy people expect predictable SOP behaviour. In fact, that is the training.
SEALs require a somewhat different personality dictated by the nature of their expected operating environment and mission profiles.
Marines are likewise attracted to their service for entirely different reasons to those the sailors have in choosing the naval service.
It seems to me that the PCs aim should be stated before the adventure in such a way that would suggest they will, or at least should try to, survive the adventure. At a guess the most 'adventurous' of people in this world are high stakes bank robbers. Even these expect to get away with proceeds of crime to retire somewhere with a false identity.
IMHO it is not a mark of a good GM who continuously exposes, or allows PCs to expose themselves to, hair's-breadth-away-from-death experiences. Even war is "Months of boredom punctuated by moments of terror." (November 1914) I think though that many GMs run their adventures like a sit-com, where something MUST be happening all the time because they MUST hold the audience's attention to get the ratings before the news comes on. I think much of the adventure should be boring and mundane. Even spies in warzones do not sweat adrenaline 24/7.
Most people here will probably disagree
Greg
On 17 February 2016 at 18:34, <tmr0195@comcast.net> wrote:
Hello Greg Chalik,How many characters have been killed or target missed when shot at, or loosing control of a vehicle at slow speed by unfortunate die rolls?In my case I've had a lot of characters never get out the character generation rules due to unfortunate okay lousy dice rolls. Those that did get into play about seventy percent of them did not last long either, because of my lousy dice rolls.In one adventure my character was driving an ATV and managed to crash the vehicle in open terrain when I failed a check, the players and Referee where amazed, not to mention took a long time to stop laughing.How in the heck do you know anything about the USN unless you've been there. In fact everybody who is in the military, the coast guard, or emergency services are having adventures every time they go on duty. Yes, I am ticked off by the USN and seal comment I served this country for twenty-years and I really doubt that the seals consider themselves having an adventure when they are on the pointy end of the spear.Thomas M Rux STS1/SS USN ret.
From: "Greg Chalik" <mrg3105@gmail.com>
To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:13:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TML]Tracking spaceships inJump TU, was: Instantcity
Kelly, with all due respect, I expect my home to have AI in about a decade.I expect it not to want to kill me in the process of managing its assigned tasks.The F-35 is the last manned combat fighter to serve with the USAF. Even now, the F-35s pilot is mostly a passenger.
I agree that "Adventure is something dangerous and exciting happening to someone else, far far away.", but few people expect not to return.In any case, do you have a source from canon that all IN ship's company sign up for an 'adventure'?
I'd say most sign up for a service cruise.The only adventure types in the USN are those who volunteer for SEAL service.
From a purely personal perspective, I would find it dissapointing to start an adventure, only to be told in an hour that due to an undortunate dice roll my ship misjumped and all PCs are going to die of old age, slowly drifting nowhere.
Greg
On 17 February 2016 at 15:13, Kelly St. Clair <xxxxxx@efn.org> wrote:
First, I do not believe there is much support in the canon for most starships - even at high TLs - to be equipped with AI, let alone ones programmed with the Three Laws. While rules for such exist (Book 8, et al), this does not appear to be a common feature in published ship designs.
Second, IMO, when the car, or ship, can take independent action to prevent (or minimize) harm to sophonts - and is required by law to do so in most cases that PCs will encounter - then I submit you are not technically in control; you are a passenger.
"Adventure is something dangerous and exciting happening to someone else, far far away."
--
---------------
Kelly St. Clair
xxxxxx@efn.org
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