Does anyone know if the HIWG CDs are still available?  I have a dead email.

On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 07:11:32 PM EST, Traveller Mailing List <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:

(Previous discussion continued)

Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars - Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)

Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars - David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)

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Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars by Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)
Reply to list

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:20:33 -0000, wrote:

>Put them in as is, and add an explanation to go with them:

I think I'll revise the first and last paragraphs as shown... :) The rest,
modulo minor copyediting (which has been done on the text here) can pretty
much stand as-is... (I've deleted the reference to "Imperial" miles; unlike
gallons, miles are the same on both sides of the Atlantic.)

>"Our glorious editor, Jeff, pointed out that if these were published as is
>then he would likely get feedback to say that the range and duration on
>these TL8 vehicles is significantly greater than present day cars, currently
>on the market. And he is of course completely correct (as always (and as we
>have come to expect)) ...

"Author's Note: The range and duration of these vehicles is noticeably
greater than that of nominally similar present-day cars.

>Please remember that MegaTraveller and its design system, used to build
>these, is about 30 years old, and while it's had the benefits of 30 years of
>Travellers pointing out its inconsistencies and then subtly adjusting the
>system to better fit reality, it was and still is pretty good at turning out
>vehicles that approximate reality.
>
>In this instance, the Urban Class Passenger Car has a fuel tank that is
>probably twice that of a car of today (26 gallons (imperial) vs 13 for a
>Ford Mondeo Estate), and while its MPG of around 34 isn't the best, it's
>only 4 off the Mondeo in urban driving. It has a range of around 890 miles
>against around 715 miles for the Mondeo (with efficient motorway
>driving), and weighs about 600kg less than an unloaded Mondeo Estate. It's
>also (adjusting for dollar inflation over the last 30 years) about 1/3 of
>the price of a new Mondeo, and has 2.75 times the cargo capacity of my
>chosen comparison vehicle, although its top speed is rubbish.
>
>The Urban E Class suffers the same against electric vehicles of today: it's
>about twice the range, significantly cheaper with much more cargo capacity.
>
>You can of course adjust the parameters to suit your game especially if
>you're using Traveller rules to play a modern day Earth setting (which in
>itself would be pretty cool ...), and I could probably play with the ratios
>of the power of the engine and suspension and transmission of the wheels to
>see if I could get the stats to better match reality, but I could also
>leave that as a exercise for the reader ...
>
>So while not perfect, they aren't way off, which ain't half bad, especially
>given that the rules were published at the same time as the TML came into
>being."

So, while not perfect representations of the current state of the
technology, they aren't unresonably far off, especially given that the
rules were published just over thirty years ago."

"Editor's Note: The Ford Mondeo reference vehicle is marketed in the
Americas, the Middle East, and South Korea as the Ford Fusion. Imperial
gallons convert to US gallons at a 1:1.2 (5:6) ratio, and to liters at a
1:4.55 (20:91) ratio."

>How's that?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ewan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xxxxxx@simplelists.com On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: 19 February 2020 00:10
>To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars
>
>On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:51:01 -0000, wrote:
>
>>I know there are a few passenger cars out there for TL8, and Robert
>>(Dean) did electronic versions of the car and motorcycle as well
>>(although his costs (probably the batteries) are high), but I wanted
>>something I could manipulate myself to add the automation in .
>>
>>Because it was the autonomous electrical car that I was really after .
>
>I was going over these with an eye toward including them in the forthcoming
>issue of Freelance Traveller, and the fuel capacity and range/duration
>Simply Didn't Seem Right. I'm working on the assumption that the current TL
>for the "first world" here is more-or-less TL8 verging on prototype-TL9.
>
>If you want to add an explanation of the 'discrepancy' or update the
>numbers, I can hold them, or I can go ahead and print them as-is (and
>probably get some feedback along the same lines as my comments below).
>
>>Urban Class Passenger Car
>
>>CraftID: Urban Class Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 3,910
>>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
>> Loaded=5.71 tons, Unloaded=1.034 tons
>>Power: 1/2, Improved Internal Combustion=0.16 Mw, Duration=12 hours
>>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=28, Road=119 kph, Offroad=24 kph
>>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
>>Sensors: Headlights x2
>>Off: Hardpoints=1
>>Def: DefDM=+2
>>Control: Panel=Electronic x1,
>>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
>>Other: Fuel=0.12 klitres, Cargo=4.557 klitres, ObjSize=Small,
>EmLevel=Faint
>>
>>Cost in Quantity=Cr 3,128
>
>Are you sure about the fuel and range/duration? 0.12 kliters is 120 liters,
>and at roughly 4 liters to 1 gallon, that makes it a 30-gallon gas tank
>(it's more, actually, as it's really only about 3.8 liters per gallon). A
>quick google makes an average sedan gas tank about half that (less for
>hybrids - a variant that you didn't include); even the typical SUV - which
>is a light truck, not a passenger car (except legally in most
>jurisdictions), is only about three-quarters of that. With current engine
>efficiencies, the range for a pure I/C vehicle of the passenger car/light
>truck class is 300-400 miles (400-600 km), which works out to a duration of
>5 - 15 hours, depending on speed - but the distance range and fuel
>efficiency are better measures for a ground vehicle (realistically, 7.8 to
>5.9 liters/100km [30-40 US MPG]; your figures, range [up to] 1400km [875
>miles], 8.6 liters/100km [27 US MPG]).
>
>The above also applies to the Urban A.
>
>
>
>
>>Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car
>
>>CraftID: Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 10,578
>>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
>> Loaded=3.713 tons, Unloaded=0.589 tons
>>Power: 1/2, Battteries=0.1 Mw, Duration=8 hours
>>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=27, Road=116 kph, Offroad=23 kph
>>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
>>Sensors: Headlights x2
>>Off: Hardpoints=1
>>Def: DefDM=+2
>>Control: Panel=Electronic x1, Interface=Power
>>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
>>Other: Cargo=3.124klitres, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
>>
>>Cost in Quantity=Cr 8,462
>
>The same comment about range vs. duration applies here; the typical electric
>car available today has a range of 150-300 miles (250-500 km), with the "no
>frills" versions being closer to the _low_ end of that (Nissan Leaf, 250km;
>Tesla 3, 500km).
>
>This also applies to the Urban EA.
>
>
>
>For what it's worth, and for comparison, my 2008 Prius (hybrid) has a
>12-gallon (45 liter) tank; in highway driving I've gone as much as 550 miles
>(880 km) on a single tank of gas, and could have made about 600
>(~1000 km) safely.
>
>RTraveller is a registered trademark of
>Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of the trademark in this notice and
>in the referenced materials is not intended to infringe or devalue the
>trademark.

®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
the trademark in this notice and in the
referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
http://www.freelancetraveller.com

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
enterprises for hosting services:

onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)
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Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars by David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)
Reply to list

Dear Folks –

 

Hi Ewan! Have you applied the errata for internal combustion engines?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                    xxxxxx@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

 

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