On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 07:11:32 PM EST, Traveller Mailing List <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:

(Previous discussion continued)
Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars - Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars - David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)

Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars by Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)
Reply to list

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:20:33 -0000, wrote:

>Put them in as is, and add an explanation to go with them:

I think I'll revise the first and last paragraphs as shown... :) The rest,

modulo minor copyediting (which has been done on the text here) can pretty

much stand as-is... (I've deleted the reference to "Imperial" miles; unlike

gallons, miles are the same on both sides of the Atlantic.)

>"Our glorious editor, Jeff, pointed out that if these were published as is

>then he would likely get feedback to say that the range and duration on

>these TL8 vehicles is significantly greater than present day cars, currently

>on the market. And he is of course completely correct (as always (and as we

>have come to expect)) ...

"Author's Note: The range and duration of these vehicles is noticeably

greater than that of nominally similar present-day cars.

>Please remember that MegaTraveller and its design system, used to build

>these, is about 30 years old, and while it's had the benefits of 30 years of

>Travellers pointing out its inconsistencies and then subtly adjusting the

>system to better fit reality, it was and still is pretty good at turning out

>vehicles that approximate reality.

>In this instance, the Urban Class Passenger Car has a fuel tank that is

>probably twice that of a car of today (26 gallons (imperial) vs 13 for a

>Ford Mondeo Estate), and while its MPG of around 34 isn't the best, it's

>only 4 off the Mondeo in urban driving. It has a range of around 890 miles

>against around 715 miles for the Mondeo (with efficient motorway

>driving), and weighs about 600kg less than an unloaded Mondeo Estate. It's

>also (adjusting for dollar inflation over the last 30 years) about 1/3 of

>the price of a new Mondeo, and has 2.75 times the cargo capacity of my

>chosen comparison vehicle, although its top speed is rubbish.

>The Urban E Class suffers the same against electric vehicles of today: it's

>about twice the range, significantly cheaper with much more cargo capacity.

>You can of course adjust the parameters to suit your game especially if

>you're using Traveller rules to play a modern day Earth setting (which in

>itself would be pretty cool ...), and I could probably play with the ratios

>of the power of the engine and suspension and transmission of the wheels to

>see if I could get the stats to better match reality, but I could also

>leave that as a exercise for the reader ...

>So while not perfect, they aren't way off, which ain't half bad, especially

>given that the rules were published at the same time as the TML came into

>being."

So, while not perfect representations of the current state of the

technology, they aren't unresonably far off, especially given that the

rules were published just over thirty years ago."

"Editor's Note: The Ford Mondeo reference vehicle is marketed in the

Americas, the Middle East, and South Korea as the Ford Fusion. Imperial

gallons convert to US gallons at a 1:1.2 (5:6) ratio, and to liters at a

1:4.55 (20:91) ratio."

>How's that?

>Best regards,

>Ewan

>-----Original Message-----

>From: xxxxxx@simplelists.com On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin

>Sent: 19 February 2020 00:10

>To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com

>Subject: Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars

>On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:51:01 -0000, wrote:

>>I know there are a few passenger cars out there for TL8, and Robert

>>(Dean) did electronic versions of the car and motorcycle as well

>>(although his costs (probably the batteries) are high), but I wanted

>>something I could manipulate myself to add the automation in .

>>Because it was the autonomous electrical car that I was really after .

>I was going over these with an eye toward including them in the forthcoming

>issue of Freelance Traveller, and the fuel capacity and range/duration

>Simply Didn't Seem Right. I'm working on the assumption that the current TL

>for the "first world" here is more-or-less TL8 verging on prototype-TL9.

>If you want to add an explanation of the 'discrepancy' or update the

>numbers, I can hold them, or I can go ahead and print them as-is (and

>probably get some feedback along the same lines as my comments below).

>>Urban Class Passenger Car

>>CraftID: Urban Class Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 3,910

>>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,

>> Loaded=5.71 tons, Unloaded=1.034 tons

>>Power: 1/2, Improved Internal Combustion=0.16 Mw, Duration=12 hours

>>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=28, Road=119 kph, Offroad=24 kph

>>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)

>>Sensors: Headlights x2

>>Off: Hardpoints=1

>>Def: DefDM=+2

>>Control: Panel=Electronic x1,

>>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env

>>Other: Fuel=0.12 klitres, Cargo=4.557 klitres, ObjSize=Small,

>EmLevel=Faint

>>Cost in Quantity=Cr 3,128

>Are you sure about the fuel and range/duration? 0.12 kliters is 120 liters,

>and at roughly 4 liters to 1 gallon, that makes it a 30-gallon gas tank

>(it's more, actually, as it's really only about 3.8 liters per gallon). A

>quick google makes an average sedan gas tank about half that (less for

>hybrids - a variant that you didn't include); even the typical SUV - which

>is a light truck, not a passenger car (except legally in most

>jurisdictions), is only about three-quarters of that. With current engine

>efficiencies, the range for a pure I/C vehicle of the passenger car/light

>truck class is 300-400 miles (400-600 km), which works out to a duration of

>5 - 15 hours, depending on speed - but the distance range and fuel

>efficiency are better measures for a ground vehicle (realistically, 7.8 to

>5.9 liters/100km [30-40 US MPG]; your figures, range [up to] 1400km [875

>miles], 8.6 liters/100km [27 US MPG]).

>The above also applies to the Urban A.

>>Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car

>>CraftID: Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 10,578

>>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,

>> Loaded=3.713 tons, Unloaded=0.589 tons

>>Power: 1/2, Battteries=0.1 Mw, Duration=8 hours

>>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=27, Road=116 kph, Offroad=23 kph

>>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)

>>Sensors: Headlights x2

>>Off: Hardpoints=1

>>Def: DefDM=+2

>>Control: Panel=Electronic x1, Interface=Power

>>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env

>>Other: Cargo=3.124klitres, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint

>>Cost in Quantity=Cr 8,462

>The same comment about range vs. duration applies here; the typical electric

>car available today has a range of 150-300 miles (250-500 km), with the "no

>frills" versions being closer to the _low_ end of that (Nissan Leaf, 250km;

>Tesla 3, 500km).

>This also applies to the Urban EA.

>For what it's worth, and for comparison, my 2008 Prius (hybrid) has a

>12-gallon (45 liter) tank; in highway driving I've gone as much as 550 miles

>(880 km) on a single tank of gas, and could have made about 600

>(~1000 km) safely.

>RTraveller is a registered trademark of

>Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of the trademark in this notice and

>in the referenced materials is not intended to infringe or devalue the

>trademark.

®Traveller is a registered trademark of

Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of

the trademark in this notice and in the

referenced materials is not intended to

infringe or devalue the trademark.

Jeff Zeitlin, Editor

Freelance Traveller

The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource

xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com

http://www.freelancetraveller.com

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following

enterprises for hosting services:

onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)

The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)

Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars by David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)
Reply to list

Dear Folks –

Hi Ewan! Have you applied the errata for internal combustion engines?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw xxxxxx@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

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