On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 10:21 <xxxxxx@quibell.org.uk> wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Put them in as is, and add an explanation to go with them:

"Our glorious editor, Jeff, pointed out that if these were published as is
then he would likely get feedback to say that the range and duration on
these TL8 vehicles is significantly greater than present day cars, currently
on the market. And he is of course completely correct (as always (and as we
have come to expect)) ...

Please remember that MegaTraveller and its design system, used to build
these, is about 30 years old, and while it's had the benefits of 30 years or
Travellers pointing out it's inconsistencies and then subtly adjusting the
system to better fit reality, it was and still is pretty good at turning out
vehicles that approximate reality.

In this instance the Urban Class Passenger Car has a fuel tank that is
probably twice that of a car of today (26 gallons (imperial) vs 13 for a
Ford Mondeo Estate), and while it's MPG of around 34, isn't the best, it's
only 4 off the Mondeo in urban driving. It has a range of around 890 miles
(Imperial) against around 715 miles for the Mondeo (with efficient motorway
driving), and weighs about 600kg less than an unloaded Mondeo Estate. It's
also (adjusting for dollar inflation over the last 30 years) about 1/3 of
the price of a new Mondeo, and has 2.75 times the cargo capacity of my
chosen comparison vehicle, although it's top speed is rubbish.

The Urban E Class suffers the same against electric vehicles of today, it's
about twice the range, significantly cheaper with much more cargo capacity.

You can of course adjust the parameters to suit your game especially if
you're using Traveller rules to play a modern day Earth setting (which in
itself would be pretty cool ...), and I could probably play with the ratios
of the power of the engine and suspension and transmission of the wheels to
see if I could get the stats to better match reality, but hay I could also
leave that as a exercise for the reader ...

So while not perfect, they aren't way off, which ain't half bad, especially
given that the rules were published at the same time as the TML came into
being."

How's that?

Best regards,

Ewan

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxx@simplelists.com <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: 19 February 2020 00:10
To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com
Subject: Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars

On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:51:01 -0000, <xxxxxx@quibell.org.uk> wrote:

>I know there are a few passenger cars out there for TL8, and Robert
>(Dean) did electronic versions of the car and motorcycle as well
>(although his costs (probably the batteries) are high), but I wanted
>something I could manipulate myself to add the automation in .
>
>Because it was the autonomous electrical car that I was really after .

I was going over these with an eye toward including them in the forthcoming
issue of Freelance Traveller, and the fuel capacity and range/duration
Simply Didn't Seem Right. I'm working on the assumption that the current TL
for the "first world" here is more-or-less TL8 verging on prototype-TL9.

If you want to add an explanation of the 'discrepancy' or update the
numbers, I can hold them, or I can go ahead and print them as-is (and
probably get some feedback along the same lines as my comments below).

>Urban Class Passenger Car

>CraftID: Urban Class Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 3,910
>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
> Loaded=5.71 tons, Unloaded=1.034 tons
>Power: 1/2, Improved Internal Combustion=0.16 Mw, Duration=12 hours
>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=28, Road=119 kph, Offroad=24 kph
>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
>Sensors: Headlights x2
>Off: Hardpoints=1
>Def: DefDM=+2
>Control: Panel=Electronic x1,
>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
>Other: Fuel=0.12 klitres, Cargo=4.557 klitres, ObjSize=Small,
EmLevel=Faint
>
>Cost in Quantity=Cr 3,128

Are you sure about the fuel and range/duration? 0.12 kliters is 120 liters,
and at roughly 4 liters to 1 gallon, that makes it a 30-gallon gas tank
(it's more, actually, as it's really only about 3.8 liters per gallon). A
quick google makes an average sedan gas tank about half that (less for
hybrids - a variant that you didn't include); even the typical SUV - which
is a light truck, not a passenger car (except legally in most
jurisdictions), is only about three-quarters of that. With current engine
efficiencies, the range for a pure I/C vehicle of the passenger car/light
truck class is 300-400 miles (400-600 km), which works out to a duration of
5 - 15 hours, depending on speed - but the distance range and fuel
efficiency are better measures for a ground vehicle (realistically, 7.8 to
5.9 liters/100km [30-40 US MPG]; your figures, range [up to] 1400km [875
miles], 8.6 liters/100km [27 US MPG]).

The above also applies to the Urban A.

>Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car

>CraftID: Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 10,578
>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
> Loaded=3.713 tons, Unloaded=0.589 tons
>Power: 1/2, Battteries=0.1 Mw, Duration=8 hours
>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=27, Road=116 kph, Offroad=23 kph
>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
>Sensors: Headlights x2
>Off: Hardpoints=1
>Def: DefDM=+2
>Control: Panel=Electronic x1, Interface=Power
>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
>Other: Cargo=3.124klitres, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
>
>Cost in Quantity=Cr 8,462

The same comment about range vs. duration applies here; the typical electric
car available today has a range of 150-300 miles (250-500 km), with the "no
frills" versions being closer to the _low_ end of that (Nissan Leaf, 250km;
Tesla 3, 500km).

This also applies to the Urban EA.

For what it's worth, and for comparison, my 2008 Prius (hybrid) has a
12-gallon (45 liter) tank; in highway driving I've gone as much as 550 miles
(880 km) on a single tank of gas, and could have made about 600
(~1000 km) safely.

RTraveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of the trademark in this notice and
in the referenced materials is not intended to infringe or devalue the
trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
The Electronic Fan-Supported TravellerR Resource
xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com http://www.freelancetraveller.com

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following enterprises for
hosting services:

onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io) The Traveller Downport
(http://www.downport.com)
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