Hello-- I guess I'll throw my two cents worth into the mix. Not that I want to argue with you, Kevin, but I guess I will. I would suggest that you should go ahead and use ANSI standards for inputting serials holdings, that you start using the vernacular for enumeration and chronology. While we may think as technical services/serialists that it is easier to standardize enum/chron information with English/American abbreviations, I am not convinced that we are performing a service for our users by using non-vernacular enum/chron information, especially when most citations in scholarly publications and those in indexes use the vernacular for their international publications printed in languages other than English. Kevin's other points are indeed important considerations when changing local procedures. For instance, changing enum/chron information "mid-stream." There is an appropriate indicator to use when the serials holdings data is not configured according to ANSI standards. That is, the second indicator for the 866, 867, and 868 can be coded "0," non-standard, for those holdings strings that are either so long it would take a lot of time to verify the enum/chron information or for all of the holdings strings in the system before you make the switch over. Yes, it will take time to educate both staff and users about the standard and using it properly/correctly. It seems to me this is a part of our teaching function as serialists. Using the standard should more accurately reflect the history of the titles themselves--changes in numbering schemes, in frequency, in chronology can be indicated through the holdings information immediately. Continuing to use anglicized enum/chron information will not reflect such changes. In the two libraries that I have worked at where we instituted ANSI standards, we took our time to incorporate the standards into our regular procedures. At LSU we decided to change the holdings strings when we had to perform some type of maintenance on titles. Since we were in the stacks to verify changes in titles, frequency, whatever, it seemed logical to then verify the enum/chron information so that if we were "fixing" a record for one reason, we were fixing it for another reason as well. The consequences are important--it meant that are records were more accurate, were more indicative of the items themselves rather than of an order we imposed on them by anglicizing enum/chron information. Yes, we had to learn the standards ourselves. It actually helped us at LSU. Since we were also reorganizing, we used this training as a means of sharing knowledge, of demystifying serials, and implementing local procedures using national standards. Of course, the ANSI documentation does not have examples of every contingency. I've come to expect all documentation will not reveal all situations. Even AACR2rev, CONSER and LCRIs do not have examples pertinent to certain situations we encounter, which is why we have "cataloger's judgment." Local procedures can modify, enhance, differ from national standards and norms. That does not make local procedures more correct than national ones--it just makes them viable for particular/local situations. Using standards may also help those libraries in union listing agreements. Perhaps OCLC will be able to "harvest" our serials data for LDRs and its union list, which would mean we would want to have serial records that more or less conformed to national standards. Long-range planning and long-range effects should also be considered when moving into a new arena such as using national standards. To implement the standards now may be more convenient, may be more conducive than next year or in a few year's time, especially in light of budget constraints and dwindling resources. This is not a simple problem. Good luck. Mike Somers Michael A. Somers Chair, Technical Services Department Kansas State University Libraries Kansas State University Manhattan, KS 66506 785-532-7444 785-532-7644 (fax) msomers@lib.ksu.edu >>> "Kevin M. Randall" <kmr@NWU.EDU> 10/23 11:04 AM >>> At 10:08 AM 10/22/97 -0400, Donna Bible wrote: >Have any of you ever had to justify using the MARC standard? How long >should it take to create MARC holdings records for 2,000 journals and, >of equal importance, is this not an endeavor for which a fair amount of >study and preparation is justified? Donna: When you say "MARC standard", are you talking about the USMARC Format for Holdings Data (MFHD) or ANZI Z39.44 (the standard for serials holdings statements)? I ask this because it appears these two things are often confused. MFHD is a computer standard for storing and communicating holdings data, and is independent of the standards for formulating holdings statements themselves. If the MFHD record is coded properly, any standard (or no standard at all) may be used to formulate the statements. Technically, whether or not you use MFHD is dependent upon the automated library system you use. (And apparently not all systems that say they use the format actually do.) MFHD can be complex, especially if you use the "paired" fields (which basically separate the captions and enumeration/chronology into separate fields and facilitate things like collapsing/expanding holdings statements and predictive check-in). But using "free-text" 86X fields isn't all that complicated, but does take getting used to. Now, if you're really talking about the ANSI Z39.44 standard ("ANSI" throughout the rest of this message), that's another matter. We switched over from our old local standard to ANSI three years ago this month (at the same time that we switched over to the MFHD format--I think that in itself caused some of the confusion over terminology here at NU). The reason we switched to ANSI was that we were very much in need of fixing our local standard (whose imprecision sometimes caused ambiguous statements) and thought that it was preferable to go with a national standard. And the reason we switched at the same time was that we needed the capabilities of MFHD to help us distinguish between holdings statements in the old and new standards. (The holdings statements that were converted from the old NOTIS Volume Holdings records became 866 fields with indicators " 0" to signify that they were not in any standard. New holdings statements input in ANSI, or old statements re-done in ANSI, would have indicators "41".) The switch to ANSI was not easy. I held several training sessions for staff in the library, and met weekly with a few people to go over questions about using the standard. And questions were plentiful! ANSI is very strange in that it seems very prescriptive in some areas but totally silent in some others. We had to find our own way in matters such as inconsistent use of captions by publishers, use of captions with years (such as "annee 1995"), etc. We couldn't reach total agreement on dealing with caption changes mid-stream, for example, going from "v.23" in the old standard to "Bd.24" in the new standard; what we did here was use the vernacular if it was an unanalyzed serial, but continue the old captioning if it was analyzed (and make a note in the MFHD record stating that the publisher's caption is different). One of the most frustrating things for me is the difference between Z39.44 and Z49.57 (the latter being the standard for non-serial holdings statements). I am anxiously awaiting the distribution of Z39.71, the rewritten standard that combines the two. Sometimes I wonder if it ever will appear... There are currently differences between the two standards in punctuation and in repeating levels of captions in compressed statements. As far as converting non-standard holdings statements into ANSI, I would say "Don't do it" unless you have a compelling reason to do so. Some statements may be very easy to convert, if the publication is pretty regular in its use of captions, if you have a good AACR2 bib record, if you don't have gaps, etc. But otherwise you would really have to look at the pieces in order to follow the standard correctly, and that would be a *lot* of work. If you and your users can handle looking at holdings that change from one "look" to another in the middle (like the following example), you might want to go ahead and do it. But I would warn you to be prepared for a significant learning curve. ========================================================================= Search request: T=SITZUNGSBERICHTE DER SACHSISCHEN AK NUcat Serial - Record 4 of 7 entries found Holdings detail ----------------------------- Screen 1 of 2 ------------------------- Title: Sitzungsberichte der Sachsischen Akademie der ... ----------------------------- Location 1 ----------------------------- LOCATION: MAIN CALL NUMBER 063 S127b OTHER INFO: Current issues in periodicals. CURRENT ISSUES: Bd.135:Heft 1-2(1997) LIBRARY HAS: v.67(no.5)(1917) v.69(no.6)(1917) v.70(no.1,3,6)(1918) v.71(no.1,4)(1919) v.85(no.1)(1933) v.86(no.1)(1934) v.90(no.2)(1938) ------------------------------------------------ Continued on next screen Search request: T=SITZUNGSBERICHTE DER SACHSISCHEN AK NUcat Serial - Record 4 of 7 entries found Holdings detail ----------------------------- - Screen 2 of 2 -------------------------- Title: Sitzungsberichte der Sachsischen Akademie der ... ------------------------- Location 1 (continued) ----------------------- LOCATION: MAIN CALL NUMBER 063 S127b LIBRARY HAS: v.97(no.3)(1950) v.98(no.3,5-6)(1952) v.100-110(1952-1966) v.111(no.1)(1965) v.112(no.1-6)(1965-1966) v.113-130(1967-1990) Bd.131 (1991)-Bd.134 (1996) Note: We had to "fudge" a bit on the ANSI standard for our current issues because of the line length limitation in NOTIS O/P/R records; we don't repeat captions in collapsed statements for these. If you are interested, our documentation for the changeover to both MFHD and ANSI can be found on the Web: http://www.library.nwu.edu/sas/holdings/index.html Comments and questions about this documentation are very welcome. I hope all this has helped... Kevin M. Randall Head, Serials Cataloging Section Northwestern University Library Evanston, IL 60208-2300 email: kmr@nwu.edu phone: (847) 491-2939 fax: (847) 491-7637