5 messages: 1)____ From: "Regina Beach" <regina_l_beach@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Salary information in job ads Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:10:09 -0500 Folks, I'm getting some really great responses. Keep them coming. 2)_____ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:30:38 -0500 From: Garry Church <gchurch@laredo.edu> Subject: salaries Going up the rung? Surely you mean , like, Head of Libraries, Provost, = Dean, Provost, etc, right? Positions where one might reasonably expect = close to 70-100k or more, where the salary need NOT be posted because it = would be considered outrageous if most people knew what it was, and = which applicants needn't worry about the money because it's there along = with a secretary and other staff, a large office, and other extra = benefits - which leaves out most of us laboring in the trenches looking = for a liveable wage.=20 An institution offering an experienced supervisory position at less than = 40k knows it will have trouble filling it, and has no choice but to hope = the other things besides salary might entice applicants. Let's be = realistic - most professional academic folks have to eat and pay bills, = dress professionally, attend conferences, purchases homes, cars, and = etc. - a salary level matters. It's materialistic, and a sad commentary = on life , but if we wanted to work for nothing we wouldn't have gone to = grad school. GLC 3)______ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:38:15 -0500 From: Garry Church <gchurch@laredo.edu> Subject: FW: salaries I've been an academic person 13 yrs, 3 in libraries, and I need to see = the salary to seriously consider a position. I might take a job whose = salary is lower than mine if the other things made it worth it, but = salary range is probably the first thing that raises interest. I assume, = as many do, that unposted salaries suggest a salary lower than most. It = makes sense for those places that can only afford meager salaries to not = post it, hoping to accentuate the other positives, if any. However, it = seems that if an institution values a librarian so lowly that their = salary is not equitable, then one has to consider this aspect. There are = always those diamonds hidden in the sand whose salary is in fact higher = than most, but from what I've seen advertised, the lower level places = with lower salaries and benefits appear to not post salaries. Most = attractive places give a mid-point or a high and a low. Some places who = don't post may use code words - comparative, competitive, excellen! t, and so on.=20 I saw one ad where the job looked very appealing, but the salary was not = posted and I even emailed and asked, and was told they didn't post the = salary anywhere and wouldn't even give a range. Sadly, I'd hate to go = thru the whole application process, perhaps moving to a place I know = little about other than the job, fully qualified and willing to put my = heart and soul into, only to find the pay was too low to make it = feasible. =20 I suppose for an institution not to post the salary, it'd be like not = sending my CV or not listing experience and education on the = application- how would I expect an institution to sort me out? How then = does an institution expect the applicant to sort the institution out? = Don't committees want the best they can get, or just those who apply any = place with little care for what they have to offer or what is available? = We're well educated professional librarians with at least one masters = degree, after all, not grade school teachers or clerical staff. Surely = we didn't enter this profession to be treated shabbily? (Nothing against = teachers, but they are often treated poorly.) How does an ad expect the reader to make an educated guess in applying? = Altho it would be wonderful to not to have to worry about such = pedestrian things as money, one does not work for the mere joy of it = (otherwise we might all become monks or nuns or retirees) but with the = idea of being a professional demanding professional remuneration and = delivering professional competence. There are things the employee looks = for in an institution - salary, benefits, and working conditions being = quite important - and the institution in return has certain expectations = for performance. This does not mean that one is any more mercenary than = the other, just that our world is based on financial return, and status = is judged not only on education, rank, but salary level. This is, of = course, a very pragmatic view of things. =20 GLC 4)_____ From: "Mark Hemhauser" <mbhhbm@american.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:02:54 -0400 >don't you know that as you go up the rungs of high paying jobs, very often salary is not mentioned in the ad? High paying jobs, yes...Director of Annual Giving, Vice President of Finance, Provost, Dean. This job is not high paying. I have less responsibility than this job probably entails, no MLS, (hence I probably wouldn't be considered), eight years of direct experience with managing the daily serials operations of an academic library, and increasing work on electronic resources. I'm almost at the top of this range. I'm sure not going to disrupt my life, sell my condo, leave my friends and community and move to Kingsville, Texas for the same pay and more responsibility and stress and probably longer hours. (There is a cost of living factor that might compensate for same dollar amount, but that has to be considered carefully.) As others have said...SALARY MATTERS. I'm not even going to consider applying for a job with the phantom "competitive salary." (Unless it looks so good I call and ask.) Sure, job responsibilities matter too, but salary and location are going to be important to "experienced" people who may be happy where they are, but looking for something more "challenging" AND want to see their "experience" rewarded. >You want a candidate who wants the job, not someone looking for a salary as issue # 1. When you're fresh out of college, getting a cool, interesting, challenging job may be more valuable and important than the salary, presuming it's enough to get by on. But if you're an experienced professional, then you are likely older, possibly more settled where you live, have family, a spouse who's "career" needs to be considered. Have friends and neighbors living near you. Have stronger ties to your current institution and community. You're not likely to want to uproot the family for a few dollars more or maybe less. Knowing the salary range (and benefits) in advance is essential to knowing whether it is worth the trouble of applying. For those who haven't figured it out already, this serials position is at Texas A&M University Kingsville, about 250 miles south of San Antonio. Corpus Christi is the next nearest city. Now the salary has been advertised! "University & Community: Texas A & M University, a part of the Texas A & M University System, is a majority Hispanic state-supported institution with an enrollment of almost 6,000. Located in Kingsville, a South Texas community of 25,000, the University is 40 miles southwest of Corpus Christi and North Padre Island and 120 north of Mexico. The region is known for its mild winters, extended growing season, and moderate cost of living." Mark Hemhauser American University Library--Serials Washington, DC 5)_____ From: "Barbara Peale" <bpeale@lib.NMSU.Edu> To: "SERIALST: Serials in Libraries Discussion Forum" <SERIALST@LIST.UVM.EDU> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:01:11 -0600 but to make an INFORMED choice takes all the information. for example; when i chose to move out here to the southwest, i looked at what jobs were available, where, and at what salary, then factored in the costs of housing, food, etc., then my final factor was quality of life. i determined that it was more than worth it to take more than a 50+% cut in pay (yep, i really did take a cut in pay) because my quality of life improved by 200%. but i needed all the information to make an informed decision. i left a $30,000/year job & so did my husband, to move out here for what was a $13,000/year job (for each of us). it was the best decision we ever made. Barbara New Mexico State University > Pat Meyer > Serials Specialist > National University Library > 9393 Lightwave Avenue > San Diego, CA 92123-1447 > pmeyer@nu.edu > voice (858) 541-7917 > toll free (866) NU-ACCESS ext.7917 > fax (858) 541-7997 >
